6 ms·
That's just the disaster. And the end of W3C standard development process. AFAIR it should be 3 independent implementations of the feature in order for Draft t
by c-smile 8y ago
That's just the disaster.
And the end of W3C standard development process. AFAIR it should be 3 independent implementations of the feature in order for Draft to reach Recommendation status.
So technically all that means that web standards will be written by WebKit team alone.
Sic transit Gloria mundi, sigh.
- naner 8y agoFair concern. On the other hand nobody uses Edge on Windows 10, do they? In my limited experience users seem to still use IE or go to Chrome or Firefox.
- c-smile 8y agoI am using it on day per day basis. It has some problems but works for me in 99.9% of cases.
- ztjio 8y agoI use it as much as possible. Its user experience on touch windows devices (Surface Go in this case) is several orders of magnitude better than Chrome and Firefox... is not a usable browser, performance-wise in my experience. Edge is brand new, and foolishly branded to look like IE, this might stop average users who know about getting Chrome from using it. But it shouldn't. It's extremely rare that I'm forced to swap over to Chrome. Mostly I use Chrome to keep my invasive work IT staff from having access to my private browsing info.
- qwerty456127 8y agoThe problem with Edge is it still (like IE had been always but at a small number of moments in history when it actually was the original source of an innovation) is the worst of the browsers from the standards (or non-standards, whatever) support perspective. See caniuse.com
- naner 8y agoThanks, that is what I was missing. It makes sense that Edge would be preferred on Win 10 touchscreen devices.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- nl 8y agoAbout 12% of Windows10 users are on Edge according to this[1]. Another 6% are on IE classic. [1] sorry for the URL: https://netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?options=%7B%22filter%22%3A%7B%22%24and%22%3A%5B%7B%22platformVersion%22%3A%22Windows%2010%22%7D%5D%7D%2C%22dateLabel%22%3A%22Trend%22%2C%22attributes%22%3A%22share%22%2C%22group%22%3A%22browser%22%2C%22sort%22%3A%7B%22share%22%3A-1%7D%2C%22id%22%3A%22browsersDesktop%22%2C%22dateInterval%22%3A%22Monthly%22%2C%22dateStart%22%3A%222017-12%22%2C%22dateEnd%22%3A%222018-11%22%2C%22plotKeys%22%3A%5B%7B%22browser%22%3A%22Internet%20Explorer%22%7D%2C%7B%22browser%22%3A%22Edge%22%7D%5D%2C%22segments%22%3A%22-1000%22%7D https://netmarketshare.com/browser-market-share.aspx?options...
- c-smile 8y agoStarted seriously thinking about converting Sciter to full scale web browser. Anyone is willing to invest in that?
- zapzupnz 8y agoChromium has greater share, so I think it would be more the Chromium team.
- Someone1234 8y agoHow independent are Chromium from Google/Chrome? Legitimately asking.
- kowdermeister 8y agoIndependent enough for Microsoft to pick it up. I think this will be amazing.
- Klonoar 8y agoMmmm isn't this effectively Gecko/Blink/WebKit now?
- c-smile 8y agoBlink and WebKit cannot be considered as separate implementations - their codebase is in sync AFAIK.
- saagarjha 8y agoBlink was forked a long time ago–do they still share patches?
- fabrice_d 8y agoThey share less and less. Blink did a `rm -rf third_party/Webkit` recently.
- c-smile 8y agoPatches is not the only mechanism to keep code in sync. For two engines forked from the same source (same architecture and even same code tree structure) it is relatively easy to copy/paste feature implementation, no?
- om2 8y agoIn theory maybe, but in practice we rarely do. Sometimes even when the idea is pretty clear, like WebKit's CSS JIT, it's not that easy to copy because of underlying assumptions.
- saagarjha 8y agoJust curious, what kind of underlying assumptions are required for the CSS JIT (which is completely new to me! I had no idea this even existed)? I read this: https://webkit.org/blog/3271/webkit-css-selector-jit-compiler/ https://webkit.org/blog/3271/webkit-css-selector-jit-compile... but I didn't see anything specific (by the way, the spinning animation for the gear is broken on my Safari Technology Preview).
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- TheAceOfHearts 8y agoW3C is completely irrelevant when it comes to a bunch of browser stuff. WHATWG is the standards body that matters when it comes to HTML.
- jcranmer 8y agoBrowser stuff is more than HTML. CSS, for example, is still driven by the W3C and not WHATWG.
- pier25 8y agoWebkit and Blink are not the same. Blink forked years ago and went their own way. Also, Blink is only the renderer. Safari does not use V8.
- vbezhenar 8y agoIs IE dead?
- sureaboutthis 8y agoIE has been dead for years. Some still have to put pity on IE11 or even IE10 but we're all hoping for a rapid death.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- russdpale 8y agoIts been dead, but only now has MS finally conceited the defeat. This might be bad for the industry, but its a personal victory for many of us.
- chrisseaton 8y agoWho cares what the W3C think is a draft or a recommendation?
- sureaboutthis 8y agoThe entire internet and web development community, that's who. While WHATWG has taken over the HTML part, it's the W3C that still gets all the action everywhere else.
- jcranmer 8y agoThe experience of standards bodies has generally agreed that you can't shake out all the problems with a specification until you have at least two independent implementations.
- 013a 8y agoWe do still fortunately have three (more or less) independent popular implementations: Google with Blink, Apple (and now Microsoft) with WebKit, and Mozilla with Gecko. These are still three strong and independent voices; Chrome has substantial control on desktops, Apple has a stranglehold on their highly popular platforms, and Mozilla has both the hearts of the tech community as well as wide regard in bleeding edge technology with Rust, Quantum/Stylo, and Servo.
- basch 8y agoMicrosoft will use Blink not WebKit. Teams and VSCode are already Electron apps.
- jcranmer 8y agoI'd put the count at 2¾: Blink counts for ½ since it's an ex-fork of WebKit. While a lot of the new feature development of the two are independent of each other, they still largely share a lot of the same architecture, which means there's going to be correlation in things like ease of implementation. The extra ¼ comes from Servo, which ends up having the opposite edge of the dichotomy from Gecko; it's effectively a ground-up re-implementation of the layout engine stack, so its internal architecture is quite different from everybody else, but it's goal isn't to drive new feature development in web standards.
- Manishearth 8y agoRight, the point being made is that Webkit/Safari are often the slowest of the bunch which is fine when you have three others but now each browser effectively has veto power and the expectation is that Webkit will wield it often. It's saying "oh no, now Webkit can block things", not "oh no, we don't have enough strong implementations"
- bunnycorn 8y agoSince when WebKit is the "slowest of the bunch"? WebKit's JavaScriptCore is the best performant of the big 4.
- 8y ago
- sureaboutthis 8y agoIt is two, not three.
- buboard 8y ago> will be written by WebKit team alone. or, webkit will become the equivalent of linux for browsers. Considering that there will be less incompatibilities , it's a good thing. The hope is that competition for users will lead to innovations that benefit them, and not wall them off from competing platforms.