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Been really enjoying Firefox, especially after Quantum. More devs should support and use it, lest we be beholden to Chrome for the rest of time.
by bjz_ 8y ago
Been really enjoying Firefox, especially after Quantum. More devs should support and use it, lest we be beholden to Chrome for the rest of time.
- dak1 8y agoI would love to use Firefox more for dev, but until it has a first class way to disable CORS, I can't. "CORS Everywhere" is not sufficient (it alters responses, but does not actually disable CORS, which doesn't cover all needs). Chrome I can at least disable CORS via the command line, and Safari does it best by putting it in a Developer menu that I can easily toggle. Firefox's dev tools also seem to still be behind — I haven't seen a good way to inspect WebSocket frames, for instance. I would really prefer to use Firefox due to Mozzila's stances on privacy, especially in contrast to Google; however, I have to use the tool that lets me actually get work done.
- sombremesa 8y agoI love using Firefox as my daily driver, and I can always pop open chrome if I really have to. What kind of life do you lead where your browser needs to have CORS constantly disabled?
- cjcampbell 8y agoThis can be helpful in development scenarios. I’m supporting a team that uses localstack to support local development against some AWS services. Unfortunately, the CORS settings for localstack break the development environment. With Chrome allowing them to disable from the command-line, I can provide a shortcut to launch with degraded security, no plugins, no user settings, etc. My only wish is that Chrome would make it more obvious that it’s running with these protections disabled.
- chipperyman573 8y ago>My only wish is that Chrome would make it more obvious that it’s running with these protections disabled. I know this is beginning to become off-topic, but why? Presumably, if you're using a flag that has to be run from the command-line, you're either doing it on purpose or using hardware you don't own (and a keylogger is a much greater risk than anything else at that point)
- Stratoscope 8y agoI can't speak for OP, but for me the problem is that I likely already have normal Chrome windows open when I start a "special" Chrome instance with a private profile and other settings. So now when I see a Chrome window I would like to be sure whether it's my normal user profile or the special profile. In practice, it's not a problem for me, because the presence or absence of my usual row of extension icons and profile photo is enough of a clue. But I could see where someone who doesn't normally sign into Chrome, or who doesn't have very many extensions in their normal Chrome profile, could have trouble distinguishing it from their a profile. The windows will tend to look pretty similar.
- cjcampbell 8y agoExactly. If I need to run a browser in a special configuration, I want to take every precaution to avoid using it for anything but the intended purpose. Since I disable my profile and extensions, I get similar cues. The problem I see is that not everyone takes the same precautions. And plenty of developers accumulate these sort of tweaks and hacks in their daily driver without realizing or remembering that they've crippled their own security posture. From a UX perspective, my preference is to make it clear when normal security mechanisms are disabled.
- kevin_thibedeau 8y agoWhy not just configure your server or a proxy to add the necessary headers that unlock CORS restrictions.
- reaperducer 8y agoBecause in real companies the IT department needs a real good reason, or a large number of devs that need it, to reconfigure a server that way. If you're not a lone wolf, or working in the SV bubble, the IT and security departments are going to tell you to go pound sand.
- AzMoo_ 8y agoNot really. In lots of relatively large companies there is a good relationship between infrastructure, development and security teams and they will work to find a solution that works for everybody.
- vorticalbox 8y agoThis is how it works at my work. CORS is allowed while running locally and then set while running in development and finally production.
- sametmax 8y agoIt's 2 lines of code with most modern web frameworks with junior level knowledge required. Actually, any people with decent dev skills (any people that receives money for code should...) add a conf switch for that since the begining of the project. I don't buy your comment at all.
- oelmekki 8y agoBecause having code that behaves differently on development and production is never a solution, it's a workaround. Having bugs that can't be reproduced locally is the worst thing that can happen to a developer. So yeah, you can _just_ put environment settings if you have no other possible way, but you should really avoid it if there is any other one (like using chrome with CORS disabled, here).
- giancarlostoro 8y agoNot sure if it might have this but have you tried using Firefox Developer Edition? I would suggest if disabling CORS is missing to request it for Firefox Developer Edition. Its Firefox bleeding edge with some developer focused plugins out of the box.
- vorticalbox 8y agoYou should be setting your server to set cors to allow all not disabling it in your browser. This is what we do while running docker for local development with node.
- oelmekki 8y agoAt the very least, CORS should be disabled for localhost. I build interfaces using create-react-app, which launches a dev server on localhost:3000 (useful for things like live reload), making requests on a go api on localhost:5000. On production, both are on :80 and the backend serves frontend production files. This is annoying to alter the application code just to handle dev environment (although, this already happen in many other places, so it's not critical).
- rendaw 8y agoI set up a separate profile for debugging stuff - you may want to do this anyway since you'll be free to install development extensions willy nilly. Then you can change the theme for that profile which makes it obvious which instance you're using.
- cjcampbell 8y agoI do the same for myself, including an obnoxious theme. Not all developers are this cautious.
- coffeeaddicted 8y agoChromium pops up some yellow bar with a warning when you use those flags. Isn't Chrome doing the same?
- cjcampbell 8y agoThere's a temporary warning.
- paraditedc 8y agoCurious what use cases you have for disabling CORS? Is it for 3rd party domains and APIs or response that you control? Either way, controlling it in browser doesn't sound like the right way.
- reitzensteinm 8y agoFor testing a client side app in development locally against a remote API, disabling cors is really handy. I have localhost.com in my hosts file and a local web server to run around it, but it's still really frustrating not being able to turn it off entirely.
- paraditedc 8y agoObviously I don't have context on your work, but in general, do you have control over remote API? If yes, you can setup different environments (dev, staging, production) and set CORS accordingly for each of them. If no, how is it working in production?
- reitzensteinm 8y agoI develop browser based video games that talk to a central API that I control. I mostly have the setup you describe, and most development happens against a CORS-free staging server. But it's often necessary to build a local prod version that is identical to the live version for debugging or analysis, that plays against real players and reads/writes to the same data store. It's an edge case, and in the past when I've done web development simply turning off CORS on staging has trivially solved any issues. But it does feel a bit like the developers of the browsers have chosen not to include the feature in a "we're smarter than you, trust us, you don't want this" kind of way. For the most part, they're probably right.
- paraditedc 8y agoI see. Just a wild idea that I haven't tried yet: Would it work if you configure your etc/hosts to point production domain to localhost and open the production domain in the browser? I'm gonna try this when I get free time.
- cjcampbell 8y agoThis is one of my gotchas (and I prefer to do so from the commandline). I also need a good extension manager and a session/tab manager. The extension manager makes it easy to disable extensions that are only used occasionally. The session manage makes it easier for me to keep tab count down. I have found a few session manager options on Firefox but most suffer from permission bloat and poor UI. Last I checked, there was nothing to make it easier to manage add-ons.
- eikenberry 8y agoI just switched to FF and had a similar requirement. I found "Session Sync" to be a good replacement for what I used in chrome (FreshStart).
- cjcampbell 8y agoThanks. I haven't checked in a few months, so I'll give it a look.
- sk5t 8y agoMost folks set up a little proxy--or configure CORS if the other end of the pipe is owned or cooperative--rather than throw out the baby with the bathwater due to inability to disable an important security measure.
- joking 8y agoangular dev environment already comes with that proxy incorporated.
- xg15 8y agoOut of couriosity, wouldn't it be an option to implement CORS? From my understanding, it's just a few static headers. Agreed with the missing WebSocket inspection.
- protomyth 8y agoMore devs should support and use it, lest we be beholden to Chrome for the rest of time. Why support what already broke your work once without an actual transition plan? They didn't have a full replacement ready to go when they got rid of XUL, and seemed that they didn't really care.
- larrik 8y agoI'm pretty sure he meant web devs, not plugin devs.
- protomyth 8y agoAnyone who ignores prior treatment of folks is foolish. Why would a web developer support one browser over others? They keep everyone honest by sticking to the middle road and not having a badge like "Works Best In FireFox".
- Jorge1o1 8y agoAnd yet there’s scores of websites that barely work on anything except Chrome because it’s obvious that’s what the devs are using.
- michaelmrose 8y agoThey announced web extensions in summer of 2015. https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/the-future-of-developing-firefox-add-ons/ https://blog.mozilla.org/addons/2015/08/21/the-future-of-dev... At the end of August of 2018 they stopped supporting 52 ESR which is the last extended support release that supports the old addons. During the 3 years between a and b mozilla worked to provide support for flexible interesting addons which is why all the notable interesting addons I'm aware of have new versions. I'm sure that the will to port every useful addon in existence just isn't there but it seems challenging for firefox to move forward without ditching the old addons. Did you realize the new addon system was released over 3 years ago? It kind of seems as if perhaps as a user you were only peripherally aware of matters and derived an erroneous interpretation of events.
- chmln 8y agoSorry but the devtools can't even inspect my websocket API frames. The websocket inspector was a feature request filed 6 years ago. [1] Maybe Firefox devs didn't have time for it. But somehow they got all the time in the world to add clickbait Pocket articles on my new tab page. [1] https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=885508 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=885508
- judge2020 8y agoAs well as the time to code in product placements https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15956325 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15956325
- ripdog 8y agoFinancially, Mozilla is currently entirely dependent on a search contract with Google, their mortal enemy. They obviously see that this relationship is extremely risky, especially as Firefox becomes less popular and thus their userbase less valuable to Google. As such, they're trying to diversify their revenue stream. Do you have any better solutions? Browsers are absurdly expensive to develop, by the way.
- EpicEng 8y agoDevTools are lacking and they broke a ton of add ons with the API update (with no simple way to side load.) I can't use it. I tried again about five months ago and, one two machines, pages would stutter as I scrolled. Not worth my time to mess around with.
- viswaprasath 8y agoWould love to know your favorite add-ons that are broken and not available in AMO for FF57+ some of the contributors during their free time working on to bring extensions. can you share link or about the addon ( https://github.com/firefox-addons/ideas https://github.com/firefox-addons/ideas )
- jholman 8y agoAs one of the FF faithful, I almost quit when downthemall stopped working. https://www.downthemall.net/ https://www.downthemall.net/
- Kliment 8y agoSession managers no longer work reliably since the apis for reading and writing tab and window state are not exposed. This is the biggest one for me. Also vertical tabs addons have been fighting an uphill battle.
- plopz 8y agoClassic Theme Restorer
- microcolonel 8y agoWell, it would help if they would resolve the serious quality issues. I wrote a webpage the other day, fully standards compliant (at least as I read it), and Firefox got it completely wrong (one of the bugs, three days old and not triaged[0]) in a way Ed. I still have open bugs in Firefox from 2012. Firefox is riddled with layout and scripting bugs. I don't understand how they can afford all of this experimental development and "outreach" stuff, when the core product is basically just accumulating bugs which they will never address. Their tracker is full of untriaged bugs from as far back as a decade. [0]: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511514 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1511514
- michaelmrose 8y agoDo you not work around the way chrome does things in any way shape or form?
- microcolonel 8y agoIt is virtually never required. Even Chrome's interpretation of undefined behaviours is convenient (i.e. margin: auto on elements with only a max-height; this doesn't work in EdgeHTML or Gecko)
- Klonoar 8y agoI'd support it if it felt like a first-class citizen on macOS. It's ironic that everyone decries Electron for not being native, then says you should use Firefox when it violates so much about the platform that it's not even funny. A bug about overflow scrolling (the default bouncing when you scroll over in macOS) has been open for years. It doesn't fit in.
- rangibaby 8y agoThere used to be a proper Mac fork of FF (Camino), maybe it’s time to revive that
- Klonoar 8y agoCamino was fantastic, used it back in the day. :) I'm not sure what Mozilla's deal is these days, to be honest, but Firefox really just doesn't feel like it fits in on Mac. It's frustrating, because I want to support it... but I just end up back in Safari because it feels far more smooth and integrated.
- giancarlostoro 8y agoI got into using macOS later on but after 10 years of Firefox I had no issue with it on the Mac. I guess I possibly did not even notice the bugs mentioned. Ironically I couldnt use Chrome after beta cause I was too used to how Firefox works.
- qmarchi 8y agoI was originally using chrome for pretty much everything, but I started getting annoyed with the performance hiccups and I wasn't switching over to Safari because of the failure of the extension ecosystem ($99 to publish an extension?). Firefox being the best choice out there has been positive to the point where I don't have Chrome installed on anything other than my phone.
- baldfat 8y agoI really would like to say that I find it ridiculous that mac users consistently bash Firefox due to feeling it doesn't belong while they use Google Chrome. How is Google Chrome more AppleOS then Firefox? Granted I can't stand AppleOS and find the UI to be totally frustrating still in 2018 and how old it feels. How is Firefox any different then Google Chrome?
- keithnz 8y agoI like firefox, and use it a lot at work as generally my main browser with DDG as the , but I end up going back to chrome quite a bit Things that bug me - For some reason often when I have quite a few tabs, open link in new tab stops working, the tab appears then disappears instantly, oddly if I use Vimium to open the tab in a new link it works. Mostly I use Vimium so this is not too much of a problem - Copy pasting of formatted html is worse than Chrome. - Confluence runs like a pig on Firefox for some reason, completely unusable on some pages, not strictly a FF problem, but is problematic. - Just something about the aesthetics that is somehow "off" On the positive - I like the developer tools - "Column select" out of the box just works - scrolling tab bar instead of teeny tiny tabs where you can't see anything is good - I feel better that I'm hopefully leaking less data, not that I can really verify that, but I generally believe I should be better protected than if I was using chrome Overall, while there is cool things about FF, I feel I'm using it not because its the better browser, but some vauge idea I'm helping browser diversity.
- chalst 8y agoFirefox Containers really do allow you to limit the amount that data leaks. https://medium.com/firefox-test-pilot/firefox-containers-are-go-ed2e3533b6e3 https://medium.com/firefox-test-pilot/firefox-containers-are...
- TheArcane 8y agoDon't forget the absolutely terrible translation add-ons on Firefox
- executesorder66 8y agoI have at least 30 tabs open at a time on some confluence page. None of them ever gave me any issues. So I think that's specific to you.
- bitsnbytes 8y agoI agree more option other chrome is a positive. Started to use duck duck go browser on mobile and so far so good. Firefox has always been a resource hog and crash prone for me on just about any system. Although I use it primarily for some of its features and prefer it over chrome.
- justusthane 8y agoIn my experience that's not the case since Quantum.
- boudin 8y agoIt's been a really long time I experienced any crash from Firefox. Last time I had instabilities, it was due to my profile. Deleting it solved the issues.
- morpheuskafka 8y agoThis. And their dark theme is way better than any Chrome extension. The big deal is that Chrom(ium) has taken over the rapidly growing desktop webapp market with ElectronJS, and AFAIK there is no Electron competitor that uses the modern, Quantum FF stack.
- segmondy 8y agoYup, not only that, but we must evangelize and install it every where. I installed it on every phone, tablet & computer in my house hold.
- fl0wenol 8y agoI donated to the Mozilla Foundation today when I heard about this trend coupled with the rumor of Edge's sunsetting. Even if the money is simply spent on marketing, I think that could be a good thing.
- unixhero 8y agoMarketing should not be underestimated.
- mehrdadn 8y agoI actually tried switching. I found Firefox to be still slower than Chrome. At least on Google sites it may not be their fault but knowing where to put the blame doesn't help me on my end. Marketing doesn't seem like the likely fix.
- sametmax 8y agoAre you on Mac? If yes, it's not a feeling, it's a real problem Mozilla is trying to address but have yet to crack. Firefox is an order of magnitude more performant on windows and linux.
- mehrdadn 8y agoNope, Windows. Google.com itself spends at least 1 second switching its logo placeholder to its image on Firefox. See here for more: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18055952 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18055952
- eksemplar 8y agoI use Firefox for development, but I use safari (privately) and edge (professionally) for browsing, and see no real advantages to using either Firefox or Chrome for that. I think modern Firefox is a much better browser than Chrome though, but Mozilla certainly lost the PR war and to no fault but their own, because Firefox sure sucked for a long while.
- Abishek_Muthian 8y agoDo you use Safari for private browsing because each private window is sandboxed between each other unlike Chrome? I find it intriguing that each incognito window in Chrome is not sandboxed between each other. Am I missing anything here?
- kajecounterhack 8y agoThe advantage of Firefox / Chrome in general is that if you develop habits / shortcuts you can use them in any OS. Safari only works on macOS and edge on Windows. Both their plugin ecosystems are significantly less robust as well e.g if you want to use any popular tools e.g shodan, google data saver, edit this cookie, etc
- 11235813213455 8y agoWhat I like in chrome is search shortcuts, example I start typing "thes" then press TAB, then I'm brought directly to https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/hello https://www.thesaurus.com/browse/hello (possibly with little configuration). I don't think Firefox has similar things, last time I checked we have to use bookmarks or something
- lisper 8y agoSeriously? You would sell your soul to the devil to save typing four extra characters?
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- baq 8y agoi've been on firefox for the last six months or so. very happy overall.