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"don't directly use fossil fuels" Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?
by pfisch 8y ago
"don't directly use fossil fuels"
Looks like Maryland uses a significant amount of coal to power their grid, so is this even a good thing?
- MBlume 8y agoIt doesn't matter what's powering them, the power requirements are so much smaller than those for moving a 2-3 ton automobile that you still come out way ahead
- lostcolony 8y agoEasier to replace the energy powering the grid than to, say, power a vehicle directly with non-fossil fuel sources. It may still be using fossil fuels due to what is powering the grid, but that can be changed out over time; when using a gasoline powered car, you can't, until you replace the car. It's why electric cars are viewed as being friendly; the grid they're plugged into may still be fossil fuels, but that can change at any time. A gasoline powered car won't change its reliance on fossil fuels until you replace it.
- minitoar 8y agoYes, burning coal to generate electricity to power an electric vehicle is better than using an ICE to power that vehicle directly. Not sure about hybrid vehicles.
- Relys 8y agoYes, because in the long term electric vehicles consolidate fossil fuel emissions to a single large point (coal in this case) which can be eventually replaced with a clean energy source (i.e. solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, etc.).
- jeffwass 8y agoAdditionally, the emissions of that consolidated power plant can be better filtered (eg particulates) than the corresponding thousands of disparate engines.
- solarkraft 8y agoIt's also not directly in the city.
- knicholes 8y agoThis is a big one. I live in Lehi, UT, in a place we call "Utah Valley." It's a bowl surrounded by mountains. When there's an inversion or when there's no storm to blow out the pollution, it sometimes reaches the top of the "worst air quality regions" scale. Moving the pollution to an area outside the bowl is a huge deal for me.
- baroffoos 8y agoAlso coal powerplants run much more efficiently than a car engine.
- adtac 8y agoIs there a statistical report on this? I'm not contesting your claim, I'm just curious to see _how_ much more efficient.
- christophclarke 8y agoInternal combustion engines operate at about 25% efficiency (per this paper, page 54) https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/57640/mpapke_1.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y https://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/5764... Coal power plants operate in the range of 34% efficiency https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=107&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/tools/faqs/faq.php?id=107&t=3 https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_02.html https://www.eia.gov/electricity/annual/html/epa_08_02.html
- baroffoos 8y agoAlso they tend to be run very far away so you aren't getting a blast of pollution to the face every time you go outside
- Rebelgecko 8y agoI wonder how much of that gets offset by transmission loss and the scooter's charging/discharging inefficiencies? Not that that would be a reason not to use scooters in and off itself, since they're be posed to take advantage of grids that will hopefully become more and more renewable over time
- beerlord 8y agoPlus transporting about 80kg of human, scooter and baggage is much less weight than human, car and baggage. It would be interesting to calculate the MPG of these, including the overnight recharging and repositioning done inside a van.
- paulddraper 8y agoEven so, this is still a win. 1. Scooters use far less energy than larger vehicles. 2. Generating energy from fossil fuels can be done more efficiently at a power plant than in a small engine. 3. When power generation is centralized, it is easier to substitute it for better, more efficient forms in the future.
- sonofaplum 8y agodoes this calculus still work if each scooter only lasts 3 months, as is stated in the article?
- lingzb 8y agoThat is a legit concern. Hopefully, they engineer these scooters to be more durable over time. Also, hopefully user etiquette improves over time as well so people abuse these scooters less, resulting in far longer life spans.
- ams6110 8y agoI think if anything the etiquette will get worse. I've already heard of people throwing bunches of them in dumpsters, then when the dumpster is picked up and compacted the batteries catch fire setting the entire load of garbage on fire.
- paulddraper 8y agoMaybe. Depends on the usage and alternatives.
- randyrand 8y agoMy scooter goes 35 miles on 12 cents of electricity.
- wilg 8y agoIn computer science, we call this an "interface". Users can use energy without having to know it is generated, allowing the backend to be upgraded to a more efficient power source without users doing anything. Also, the argument you're making here is called "the long tailpipe" and has been debunked – it's still a win even if the grid has dirty energy because of efficiency gains.
- jaggederest 8y agoScooters get somewhere in the thousand-miles-per-gallon-equivalent efficiency.
- r1nkgrl 8y agoWhy is this post downvoted? They asked a relevant question which generated discussion.