5 ms·

I've been using my taskbar on the side of the screen for the past decade, because every screen I use has an excess of width and limited height. I seem to be ver

I've been using my taskbar on the side of the screen for the past decade, because every screen I use has an excess of width and limited height. I seem to be very much in a minority here - I guess people don't change things from default?

snazz 8y ago
> I guess people don’t change things from default? Precisely. The average user assumes (often correctly) that the way things are is the way things are. When it comes to what technical people think are basic features (pairing a wireless keyboard to an iPad, or changing default text size on iPhones, or any number of similar tasks on any system), the modern “ease of use” guidelines suggest hiding everything away as much as possible, severely limiting setting discoverability.
- bdamm 8y ago
  Well, I consider myself an expert user, but I rarely change the default because I switch between environments so often that it would represent a major time overhead to extensively customize application to the way I really want them. And besides, the way I really want them is so far away from the way they are shipped that it's normally unrealistic to maintain that level of customization. So I get used to the defaults. It makes it easier to throw out, reinstall, or switch environments if I need to. In any given day I use 5 or 6 different primary environments.
  - xte 8y ago
    Probably i switch so often because of actual limited and limiting system design: in a Plan9-like world user's desktop is the center of the world and anything start from it and being done and used from it. In a commercial world it's common to have tons of crappy devices (so you pay more things more often) and no real integration. Time ago I have a discussion with a "commercial" guy who say that the sole really integrated platforms are cloud&mobile so they are obviously the future because we are a society and we need to interoperate. I respond plugging my laptop HDMI into the room projector and show a quick Emacs/EXWM(-X) demo: email? Hit a single key (F6 in my case) and my MUA (notmuch-emacs) popup instantly. On top of it's big search bar I have few single-key accessible saved searches and bottom the big series of tags, a far superior "dashboard" than bloated GMail UI. Of course compose a new message can happen with a single key at any time with any open application I have focused. Oh I imaging someone demand me a demo, a quick M-x skeletor (ivy-completed) popup, a single key to choose beamer slide, quick typing and slides are made, tested locally and uploaded. Another imaginary interruption and another task (skeletor again + org-mode), an imaginary patch sent via mail and voilà: magit integration. All datas are really integrated and usable in a consistent environment, anything can be done in a snap and NO other monster modern GUI or '90-style can do the same. That's the past (starting from LispM/MIT AI lab glory time) and the future like we have had "golden age" of ancient Greek polis and more modern "middle (dark) age" and again a modern age. That's integration and customization. No need to switch between systems (while can be done easily with NixOS/GuixSD + homeManager/GNU stow + unison). My system is main and I can replicate/extend it on any decent hw as nedeed. That's "switching systems" IMO :-)
    - zapzupnz 8y ago
      I think you're talking about something very different than that about which the person to whom you responded was talking. I'm assuming they were talking about different systems they don't own, aren't their own systems, and over which they don't have the sort of control to install their own software and set things up using their personal configuration files. It's awesome that you've got, or at least dreamt up, a system that works for you, but if you're able to use that exact system on every single machine you use, that isn't quite what was being described. That's an ideal, but only really feasible for personal machines. Also, I'm going to get downvoted, but please put in a few line breaks.
      - xte 8y ago
        My point is that we should not normally need to use "other machines", of course for work there are requisite but tech users should IMO do their best to avoid working in bad environment/do their best to convince their company let them use productive software. It maybe a dream but IME it works at least if you are an admin or a relevant devs or you find a good place to work in. Of course it doesn't work if you are an administrative or other roles... > Also, I'm going to get downvoted, but please put in a few line breaks. I still have to learn the idiosyncratic way HN handle text... I do put linebreaks, I'm edit in Emacs and paste here, however HN mess it up...
        zapzupnz 8y ago
        > My point is that we should not normally need to use "other machines" > of course for work there are requisite So, which is it? We do or we don't? > but tech users should IMO do their best to avoid working in bad environment More often than not, it's not up to the workers but company policies. Besides, needing to use a machine other than yours isn't a "bad environment", it's life. Not only that, but the "other machines" could equally be non-networked terminals for heavy machinery. A lot of these run a stripped-down version of Windows, so the basic user interface is usually left at default settings whilst an always-open program takes up most of the display. I agree with you on the next part: > [...] to convince their company to let them use productive software I'm right with you here, but again, company policies. Plus, your example suggests you're just thinking of individuals within a company as individuals. We mustn't assume that all users here are in technical jobs, particularly development; often we're just moving between standardised Windows workstations, lowest common denominator setups so that (A) non-technical users could log in to any machine and still understand how to use it and (B) the IT department have fewer headaches to sort out. After all, a company is not just made up of individuals; it's full of teams who have to work together to reduce each others' burdens. Sometimes that means using setups that aren't our favourites; our personal productivity mightn't be as great as if we used our own setups, but the company doesn't grind to a halt when someone's delicate configuration goes haywire and the IT team spends more time on it than anybody has any right to expect. There's a delicate balance to maintain in most companies. IT departments have no trouble labelling even the very technically competent users as ID10Ts. > however HN mess it up Are you making sure to use two carriage returns, not just one? It's not particularly idiosyncratic, reddit is the same. I think it might be inherited from non-WYSIWYG forums or bulletin boards. At any rate, it's becoming a bit of a standard to use two carriage returns due to this being the way that line breaks are entered in Markdown.
  - Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago
    Same here. And this is the reason why I use Opera as a browser. It gives me features like mouse gestures and ad bloacking without having to download extensions. Never underestimate the importance of good defaults.
    - zapzupnz 8y ago
      This. So many technically-minded people are so wrapped up in their configurations that they forget that sometimes you're placed in a situation where those configs don't exist. Good defaults ensure a decent, minimal, baseline experience that isn't hair-tearingly bad.
zapzupnz 8y ago
I put the macOS Dock on the side, but I still keep the Windows taskbar at the bottom; I just prefer how that looks, aesthetically. That said, I change its size to small, I don't need huge icons.
int_19h 8y ago
I dock the taskbar on the left ever since it got an icon-only mode in Win7.
baddox 8y ago
Most screens are wider than they are tall, but I wouldn’t say there’s an excess of width. I use the width for multiple windows side by side, and I’m fine with having a “global” taskbar running horizontally and using a small portion of the height. MacOS and other operating systems cleverly have a global top bar that changes depending on the focused application, which I like.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  There's an excess of width if you aren't a pro user, who knows how to take advantage of it. Linux has tiling WMs, Windows has basic tiling functionality + someone out there made a hackish tiling WM in AutoHotkey of all things[0]. But you're unlikely to discover this as a regular user, unless someone shows it to you. -- [0] - https://github.com/fuhsjr00/bug.n https://github.com/fuhsjr00/bug.n
Pxtl 8y ago
No, I do the same thing. It also allows me to put text labels on my running applications, because I read English and not heiroglyphics... Especially when MS loves to change their icons for VS and Office with every major release.
Foobar8568 8y ago
I have always put the Taskbar on the left as long as I remember I could. At work, it seems I am always the only one with such habits for more than a decade in different client environment.
amalcon 8y ago
I've been doing that since the 1990s (or, at least, when I use a system with a taskbar). I've never seen anyone else who does it either.
Wildgoose 8y ago
Me too. I want as much vertical space available as possible.
tracker1 8y ago
I've done that... but some of the orientation experience should actually be flipped... example, in horizontal/left, the windows start menu should probably still be in the bottom left, with taskbar climbing upward. Notifications flipped to top-left. In the end, I find that left-side orientation is rarely done well, or well imho. I did really like the Unity UI in Ubuntu, but I think I'm the only one on this. I used to position my launchpad in macos on the left as well, but this is awkward, and easier to just have it auto-hide.

snazz 8y ago

> I guess people don’t change things from default? Precisely. The average user assumes (often correctly) that the way things are is the way things are. When it comes to what technical people think are basic features (pairing a wireless keyboard to an iPad, or changing default text size on iPhones, or any number of similar tasks on any system), the modern “ease of use” guidelines suggest hiding everything away as much as possible, severely limiting setting discoverability.

bdamm 8y ago
Well, I consider myself an expert user, but I rarely change the default because I switch between environments so often that it would represent a major time overhead to extensively customize application to the way I really want them. And besides, the way I really want them is so far away from the way they are shipped that it's normally unrealistic to maintain that level of customization. So I get used to the defaults. It makes it easier to throw out, reinstall, or switch environments if I need to. In any given day I use 5 or 6 different primary environments.
- xte 8y ago
  Probably i switch so often because of actual limited and limiting system design: in a Plan9-like world user's desktop is the center of the world and anything start from it and being done and used from it. In a commercial world it's common to have tons of crappy devices (so you pay more things more often) and no real integration. Time ago I have a discussion with a "commercial" guy who say that the sole really integrated platforms are cloud&mobile so they are obviously the future because we are a society and we need to interoperate. I respond plugging my laptop HDMI into the room projector and show a quick Emacs/EXWM(-X) demo: email? Hit a single key (F6 in my case) and my MUA (notmuch-emacs) popup instantly. On top of it's big search bar I have few single-key accessible saved searches and bottom the big series of tags, a far superior "dashboard" than bloated GMail UI. Of course compose a new message can happen with a single key at any time with any open application I have focused. Oh I imaging someone demand me a demo, a quick M-x skeletor (ivy-completed) popup, a single key to choose beamer slide, quick typing and slides are made, tested locally and uploaded. Another imaginary interruption and another task (skeletor again + org-mode), an imaginary patch sent via mail and voilà: magit integration. All datas are really integrated and usable in a consistent environment, anything can be done in a snap and NO other monster modern GUI or '90-style can do the same. That's the past (starting from LispM/MIT AI lab glory time) and the future like we have had "golden age" of ancient Greek polis and more modern "middle (dark) age" and again a modern age. That's integration and customization. No need to switch between systems (while can be done easily with NixOS/GuixSD + homeManager/GNU stow + unison). My system is main and I can replicate/extend it on any decent hw as nedeed. That's "switching systems" IMO :-)
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    I think you're talking about something very different than that about which the person to whom you responded was talking. I'm assuming they were talking about different systems they don't own, aren't their own systems, and over which they don't have the sort of control to install their own software and set things up using their personal configuration files. It's awesome that you've got, or at least dreamt up, a system that works for you, but if you're able to use that exact system on every single machine you use, that isn't quite what was being described. That's an ideal, but only really feasible for personal machines. Also, I'm going to get downvoted, but please put in a few line breaks.
    - xte 8y ago
      My point is that we should not normally need to use "other machines", of course for work there are requisite but tech users should IMO do their best to avoid working in bad environment/do their best to convince their company let them use productive software. It maybe a dream but IME it works at least if you are an admin or a relevant devs or you find a good place to work in. Of course it doesn't work if you are an administrative or other roles... > Also, I'm going to get downvoted, but please put in a few line breaks. I still have to learn the idiosyncratic way HN handle text... I do put linebreaks, I'm edit in Emacs and paste here, however HN mess it up...
      - zapzupnz 8y ago
        > My point is that we should not normally need to use "other machines" > of course for work there are requisite So, which is it? We do or we don't? > but tech users should IMO do their best to avoid working in bad environment More often than not, it's not up to the workers but company policies. Besides, needing to use a machine other than yours isn't a "bad environment", it's life. Not only that, but the "other machines" could equally be non-networked terminals for heavy machinery. A lot of these run a stripped-down version of Windows, so the basic user interface is usually left at default settings whilst an always-open program takes up most of the display. I agree with you on the next part: > [...] to convince their company to let them use productive software I'm right with you here, but again, company policies. Plus, your example suggests you're just thinking of individuals within a company as individuals. We mustn't assume that all users here are in technical jobs, particularly development; often we're just moving between standardised Windows workstations, lowest common denominator setups so that (A) non-technical users could log in to any machine and still understand how to use it and (B) the IT department have fewer headaches to sort out. After all, a company is not just made up of individuals; it's full of teams who have to work together to reduce each others' burdens. Sometimes that means using setups that aren't our favourites; our personal productivity mightn't be as great as if we used our own setups, but the company doesn't grind to a halt when someone's delicate configuration goes haywire and the IT team spends more time on it than anybody has any right to expect. There's a delicate balance to maintain in most companies. IT departments have no trouble labelling even the very technically competent users as ID10Ts. > however HN mess it up Are you making sure to use two carriage returns, not just one? It's not particularly idiosyncratic, reddit is the same. I think it might be inherited from non-WYSIWYG forums or bulletin boards. At any rate, it's becoming a bit of a standard to use two carriage returns due to this being the way that line breaks are entered in Markdown.
- Al-Khwarizmi 8y ago
  Same here. And this is the reason why I use Opera as a browser. It gives me features like mouse gestures and ad bloacking without having to download extensions. Never underestimate the importance of good defaults.
  - zapzupnz 8y ago
    This. So many technically-minded people are so wrapped up in their configurations that they forget that sometimes you're placed in a situation where those configs don't exist. Good defaults ensure a decent, minimal, baseline experience that isn't hair-tearingly bad.

zapzupnz 8y ago

I put the macOS Dock on the side, but I still keep the Windows taskbar at the bottom; I just prefer how that looks, aesthetically. That said, I change its size to small, I don't need huge icons.

int_19h 8y ago

I dock the taskbar on the left ever since it got an icon-only mode in Win7.

baddox 8y ago

Most screens are wider than they are tall, but I wouldn’t say there’s an excess of width. I use the width for multiple windows side by side, and I’m fine with having a “global” taskbar running horizontally and using a small portion of the height. MacOS and other operating systems cleverly have a global top bar that changes depending on the focused application, which I like.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
There's an excess of width if you aren't a pro user, who knows how to take advantage of it. Linux has tiling WMs, Windows has basic tiling functionality + someone out there made a hackish tiling WM in AutoHotkey of all things[0]. But you're unlikely to discover this as a regular user, unless someone shows it to you. -- [0] - https://github.com/fuhsjr00/bug.n https://github.com/fuhsjr00/bug.n

Pxtl 8y ago

No, I do the same thing. It also allows me to put text labels on my running applications, because I read English and not heiroglyphics... Especially when MS loves to change their icons for VS and Office with every major release.

Foobar8568 8y ago

I have always put the Taskbar on the left as long as I remember I could. At work, it seems I am always the only one with such habits for more than a decade in different client environment.

amalcon 8y ago

I've been doing that since the 1990s (or, at least, when I use a system with a taskbar). I've never seen anyone else who does it either.

Wildgoose 8y ago

Me too. I want as much vertical space available as possible.

tracker1 8y ago

I've done that... but some of the orientation experience should actually be flipped... example, in horizontal/left, the windows start menu should probably still be in the bottom left, with taskbar climbing upward. Notifications flipped to top-left. In the end, I find that left-side orientation is rarely done well, or well imho. I did really like the Unity UI in Ubuntu, but I think I'm the only one on this. I used to position my launchpad in macos on the left as well, but this is awkward, and easier to just have it auto-hide.