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> There are locations calling themselves "community centers". They only rent their common rooms for $25/hour or more, an amount that makes it impossible for mos

> There are locations calling themselves "community centers". They only rent their common rooms for $25/hour or more, an amount that makes it impossible for most informal, average individual to afford. Where I grew up in the midwest it was relatively trivial to meet at either the local public library or community college, and I never had money. Private rooms were available, they only required reserving ahead for scheduling purposes. We even ran a linux installfest taking over sometimes two adjacent classrooms while the quarterly computer show would occur next door. That required someone actually enrolled in the community college to get the reservations however.

joe_the_user 8y ago
Well, in the case of Dungeon and Dragons, you have an activity which has similarities to a fully structured activity like a hobby group but also similarities to an entirely unstructured activity like friends, acquaintances or strangers "hanging out" in a given space. (All of the library meeting policies I've ever looked at would prevent a D&D or similarly informally social group from meeting there btw, though other places, like restaurants do allow them). Today, you have a vast variety of ways to explore any given hobby and yet you have an "epidemic of loneliness". My view is that this comes because lot of people don't actually have strong "special interests". You can see something like meetup with fairly vague activities informal, non-athletic hikes get lots of interest. Dungeons and Dragon in particular is nice because it doesn't require people to become experts or masters of any given field, there's no winners and so it's like a lot of specialized fields. But it still only appeals to some people. For a lot of people, the real lack is public space that isn't structured and I don't see library meeting rooms really helping there.
- telchar 8y ago
  I have been playing a bit of D&D recently with friends. When we play it's also an occasion to bring a variety of beers to sample and share around. I wonder if this would be off-limits in any sort of community center or public library? I suspect it would be. Those sort of restrictions and delineations of use would seem to be an integral part of what makes it hard to gather publicly. Certainly laws against open containers would make public parks off-limits for this sort of thing as well. And it's not that alcohol, in this example, is required to have fun in groups, but IMO these sort of rules/laws do add up to discourage group gatherings in public.
  - bluedino 8y ago
    >> IMO these sort of rules/laws do add up to discourage group gatherings in public At some point, some group ruined it for everyone else. Leaving their beer cans laying around, being loud and obnoxious to others , fighting, etc
    - telchar 8y ago
      Sadly that's almost certainly true.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    It would be off-limits, but it's not like these types of laws are unique to the US. When I last visited Paris over a decade ago my Parisian colleagues took me to a bar where it was supposedly common to drink, smoke, and generally socialize outside such establishments. Either the ordinance or enforcement changed recently and we were forced to go somewhere else because it was too crowded to fit inside, and we were not permitted to take our drinks outside. It was a memorable experience for me. My colleagues were looking forward to showing off how much better Paris was than San Francisco where you can't take your drink outside without causing trouble. Yet it was basically the same deal, though I must concede the last call situation was much later than California's exceptionally early 2AM.
- pmoriarty 8y ago
  "Today, you have a vast variety of ways to explore any given hobby and yet you have an "epidemic of loneliness". My view is that this comes because lot of people don't actually have strong "special interests"." I'd go further and say that it's because the interactions at hobby meetups like D&D are relatively superficial. It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Of course, at a D&D (or any other) meetup, there are opportunities to form deep friendships and make meaningful connections. It's through such connections and friendships that loneliness could be tackled at the core. Making such deep connections takes time, effort, and a willingness to get close, be vulnerable, and to open up -- all things that in our busy world full of easy impersonal interaction, many are unwilling to do, or don't know how to do. So much easier to crawl in front of the Playstation or curl up for another Netflix marathon.
  - joe_the_user 8y ago
    It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Hmm, May offer that just about every "deep connection" also involves a certain mediation, a certain amount of day-to-day -ness. Putting aside the merits or flaws of D&D, I'd offer that rituals of dating are intended to slowly build up to moments of intimacy rather than immediately dive in. And that's necessary because talking about "deepest dreams" without concrete connections between people tends to just be platitudes and empty abstractions. Deep connections between people imo also require multifaceted connections. Further, a satisfying life involves both a small number of friends who can achieve those deep connections but with that circle surrounded by a larger circle of friends with strong but perhaps ties and so-forth. That's the texture of community. Only a few very good friends is rather fragile situation, just for example (what happens if that circle breaks up and you're left with no one?). And back to D&D, I would say that table top RPGs are, or can be, fundamentally different from video games. Specifically, each person's imagination is engaged in person. Table top RPGs are often something other than an objective exercise. Each player can portray their character in the process of role playing rather than the situation being purely rule-based.
  - pavel_lishin 8y ago
    > It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Right! You can't just have a meet up to form a deep connection! That's not how it works! I see posts on our local meetup sites fairly often, of people new to the city complaining about the shallow relationships they seem to be forming, how they miss their old friends they could have in-depth and emotionally vulnerable conversations with. Well guess what? That sort of relationship takes time to build! You can't just post "I'm lonely and need a life-long friend" and expect one to come out of the woodwork without any effort on your part. I'm not sure what happens to these folks after they post; I hope they eventually do find friends and don't just curl up in front of a screen.

joe_the_user 8y ago

Well, in the case of Dungeon and Dragons, you have an activity which has similarities to a fully structured activity like a hobby group but also similarities to an entirely unstructured activity like friends, acquaintances or strangers "hanging out" in a given space. (All of the library meeting policies I've ever looked at would prevent a D&D or similarly informally social group from meeting there btw, though other places, like restaurants do allow them). Today, you have a vast variety of ways to explore any given hobby and yet you have an "epidemic of loneliness". My view is that this comes because lot of people don't actually have strong "special interests". You can see something like meetup with fairly vague activities informal, non-athletic hikes get lots of interest. Dungeons and Dragon in particular is nice because it doesn't require people to become experts or masters of any given field, there's no winners and so it's like a lot of specialized fields. But it still only appeals to some people. For a lot of people, the real lack is public space that isn't structured and I don't see library meeting rooms really helping there.

telchar 8y ago
I have been playing a bit of D&D recently with friends. When we play it's also an occasion to bring a variety of beers to sample and share around. I wonder if this would be off-limits in any sort of community center or public library? I suspect it would be. Those sort of restrictions and delineations of use would seem to be an integral part of what makes it hard to gather publicly. Certainly laws against open containers would make public parks off-limits for this sort of thing as well. And it's not that alcohol, in this example, is required to have fun in groups, but IMO these sort of rules/laws do add up to discourage group gatherings in public.
- bluedino 8y ago
  >> IMO these sort of rules/laws do add up to discourage group gatherings in public At some point, some group ruined it for everyone else. Leaving their beer cans laying around, being loud and obnoxious to others , fighting, etc
  - telchar 8y ago
    Sadly that's almost certainly true.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  It would be off-limits, but it's not like these types of laws are unique to the US. When I last visited Paris over a decade ago my Parisian colleagues took me to a bar where it was supposedly common to drink, smoke, and generally socialize outside such establishments. Either the ordinance or enforcement changed recently and we were forced to go somewhere else because it was too crowded to fit inside, and we were not permitted to take our drinks outside. It was a memorable experience for me. My colleagues were looking forward to showing off how much better Paris was than San Francisco where you can't take your drink outside without causing trouble. Yet it was basically the same deal, though I must concede the last call situation was much later than California's exceptionally early 2AM.
pmoriarty 8y ago
"Today, you have a vast variety of ways to explore any given hobby and yet you have an "epidemic of loneliness". My view is that this comes because lot of people don't actually have strong "special interests"." I'd go further and say that it's because the interactions at hobby meetups like D&D are relatively superficial. It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Of course, at a D&D (or any other) meetup, there are opportunities to form deep friendships and make meaningful connections. It's through such connections and friendships that loneliness could be tackled at the core. Making such deep connections takes time, effort, and a willingness to get close, be vulnerable, and to open up -- all things that in our busy world full of easy impersonal interaction, many are unwilling to do, or don't know how to do. So much easier to crawl in front of the Playstation or curl up for another Netflix marathon.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Hmm, May offer that just about every "deep connection" also involves a certain mediation, a certain amount of day-to-day -ness. Putting aside the merits or flaws of D&D, I'd offer that rituals of dating are intended to slowly build up to moments of intimacy rather than immediately dive in. And that's necessary because talking about "deepest dreams" without concrete connections between people tends to just be platitudes and empty abstractions. Deep connections between people imo also require multifaceted connections. Further, a satisfying life involves both a small number of friends who can achieve those deep connections but with that circle surrounded by a larger circle of friends with strong but perhaps ties and so-forth. That's the texture of community. Only a few very good friends is rather fragile situation, just for example (what happens if that circle breaks up and you're left with no one?). And back to D&D, I would say that table top RPGs are, or can be, fundamentally different from video games. Specifically, each person's imagination is engaged in person. Table top RPGs are often something other than an objective exercise. Each player can portray their character in the process of role playing rather than the situation being purely rule-based.
- pavel_lishin 8y ago
  > It's deep connection people crave, and a D&D adventure just isn't going to satisfy that need. Right! You can't just have a meet up to form a deep connection! That's not how it works! I see posts on our local meetup sites fairly often, of people new to the city complaining about the shallow relationships they seem to be forming, how they miss their old friends they could have in-depth and emotionally vulnerable conversations with. Well guess what? That sort of relationship takes time to build! You can't just post "I'm lonely and need a life-long friend" and expect one to come out of the woodwork without any effort on your part. I'm not sure what happens to these folks after they post; I hope they eventually do find friends and don't just curl up in front of a screen.