5 ms·

Winners in this scenario: Amazon, Chinese factory owners, consumers. Losers in this scenario: Chinese laborers, American "wantrepreneurs", and the environment.

nostromo 8y ago
Speaking as the frequent victim of flipped AliExpress knock off items purchased on Amazon (at 100% markup over the AliExpress price) -- I think you should put consumers in the losers column.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  The quality is unacceptable/not as advertised? Then you most definitely are in the losers column, I agree. It's rare that consumers win but most of my chinese made shit is way better than american, especially for the price.
  - siruncledrew 8y ago
    Is the American stuff actually Made in USA, or is it American company that outsources manufacturing so it's still Made in China?
xapata 8y ago
Why are the laborers losing? More demand for labor means higher wages and better conditions.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  Hmm, I don't disagree with you, but my assessment of Chinese labor situations is that laborers are paid quite low wages and the living/working conditions in proximity to the factory are probably worse than if they were just subsistence farmers. I feel similarly, because as an American laborer doing basic customer service in a high cost of living area, my wage is not enough to afford literally any discretionary spending.
  - Findeton 8y ago
    If that was true, they would stay as subsistence farmers. If they are not doing that, they must have their reasons (probably that you're wrong and they're making more money).
    - fipar 8y ago
      That assumes they have a choice, which may not be the case.
      - xapata 8y ago
        It's the opposite problem in China. Too many farmers want to be industrial laborers. They have strict control (relative to other countries) preventing farmers from moving to cities. While totalitarian, it makes sense to reduce the speed of urbanization. Switching from agrarian to industrial is very disruptive. You don't want too many unemployed laborers in your cities.
      - zaroth 8y ago
        Mass slavery would be a problem of a different order, and not really relevant to the economic discussion I think?
        jschwartzi 8y ago
        It's not necessarily slavery. If your hometown used to be a farm town, but a bunch of companies buy up all the farmland and convert it to factories and warehouses, you now no longer have a choice but to work in those factories and warehouses unless you move. And the cost of living increases because there's more competition for the same amount of living space because there's a bunch of engineers and management that are now living in the area where before it was just farm laborers and farmers. You might be getting paid the same as you were when you were farming but it's not stretching as far because everything else is more expensive.
        xapata 8y ago

nostromo 8y ago

Speaking as the frequent victim of flipped AliExpress knock off items purchased on Amazon (at 100% markup over the AliExpress price) -- I think you should put consumers in the losers column.

anoncoward111 8y ago
The quality is unacceptable/not as advertised? Then you most definitely are in the losers column, I agree. It's rare that consumers win but most of my chinese made shit is way better than american, especially for the price.
- siruncledrew 8y ago
  Is the American stuff actually Made in USA, or is it American company that outsources manufacturing so it's still Made in China?

xapata 8y ago

Why are the laborers losing? More demand for labor means higher wages and better conditions.

anoncoward111 8y ago
Hmm, I don't disagree with you, but my assessment of Chinese labor situations is that laborers are paid quite low wages and the living/working conditions in proximity to the factory are probably worse than if they were just subsistence farmers. I feel similarly, because as an American laborer doing basic customer service in a high cost of living area, my wage is not enough to afford literally any discretionary spending.
- Findeton 8y ago
  If that was true, they would stay as subsistence farmers. If they are not doing that, they must have their reasons (probably that you're wrong and they're making more money).
  - fipar 8y ago
    That assumes they have a choice, which may not be the case.
    - xapata 8y ago
      It's the opposite problem in China. Too many farmers want to be industrial laborers. They have strict control (relative to other countries) preventing farmers from moving to cities. While totalitarian, it makes sense to reduce the speed of urbanization. Switching from agrarian to industrial is very disruptive. You don't want too many unemployed laborers in your cities.
    - zaroth 8y ago
      Mass slavery would be a problem of a different order, and not really relevant to the economic discussion I think?
      - jschwartzi 8y ago
        It's not necessarily slavery. If your hometown used to be a farm town, but a bunch of companies buy up all the farmland and convert it to factories and warehouses, you now no longer have a choice but to work in those factories and warehouses unless you move. And the cost of living increases because there's more competition for the same amount of living space because there's a bunch of engineers and management that are now living in the area where before it was just farm laborers and farmers. You might be getting paid the same as you were when you were farming but it's not stretching as far because everything else is more expensive.
        xapata 8y ago