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One should also consider that the Swiss people refused to grant women voting rights on a federal level in 1959 and only did so in 1971. One region in Switzerlan

One should also consider that the Swiss people refused to grant women voting rights on a federal level in 1959 and only did so in 1971. One region in Switzerland still refused to grant them this right until they where corrected by the Swiss supreme court in 1991. Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_Switzerland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Women%27s_suffrage_in_Switzerl...

swissthrowaway 8y ago
In Switzerland, women are still second-class citizens. They're supposed to stay home and raise the kids. Day cares are full with the kids of expats, Swiss kids to the playground with their mothers.
- detcader 8y ago
  That's really sad to hear. Any pointers to English-speaking and/or prominent Swiss women's rights voices would be appreciated!
  - solemsigne 8y ago
    I assume this phenomenon has more to do with the fact that it is not required for two people to work in a household to comfortably sustain it in Switzerland, which allows the women the option to stay at home with adolescents. Maybe they in fact have more rights.
    - izacus 8y ago
      No they don't, there's just a lot of systemic issues that discourage mothers from working - from the insane costs of daycare, increased tax burden for working couples, school system which sends children home during the day and a complete lack of motherhood leave and job guarantees m
- cylinder 8y ago
  Ah yes poor women spending time with their children rather than slaving away pushing meaningless paper for MegaCorp. Shit life eh?
  - throwaway301 8y ago
    Out of the four women I know who are or were pregnant, one was fired immediately after her maternity leave ended, one was forced to go from a 100% to a 20% (one day a week) contract, and one was the target of retaliation by her boss, who felt that it was unfair that she should get pregnant less than three years after she started her job (he told her this in an official setting and cited her pregnancy on her end of year performance appraisal). The fourth was a graduate student in the final year of her studies. She hasn't been able to find a job since, despite having a good background. Two of the four women are Swiss, and the other two are German citizens. Three of the four have graduate university degrees (two in hard sciences) and all have good to stellar resumes. Source: Expat currently living in Switzerland.
    - balladeer 8y ago
      I must be missing something. Because it reads as if it’s extremely shitty for women in Switzerland and that’s a place having above average European standards. I’d assume at least at par with Scandinavia. Or at least that’s how I have come to know it from far.
      - throwaway301 8y ago
        It's complex. From what I've seen, it's largely fine if you're young and don't have children, or if you're older and your children are past the first year of kindergarten. There is still a proverbial glass ceiling in place at a lot of companies, but there are also a lot of examples of women in prominent positions in business and government. It gets difficult - again, from what I've seen - when you run into edge cases that brush up against how things are traditionally done. I don't think that a lot of companies have gotten a handle on how to accommodate women with children. For example, average working hours can easily go past 17:30, but most kinderkrippe close at 18:00. There are also social expectations that are hard to interpret or otherwise navigate, especially if you're not a native citizen and didn't grow up in the culture. I think that the situation isn't that different from a lot of other European countries, and it also appears to be improving (even in my limited time here, I've noticed that there has been a lot of discussion around the gender pay gap, and a stronger focus on accommodating women with children at work).
- toasterlovin 8y ago
  Glad to know you think raising children isn't important work.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    If it was seen as important work they'd be paid for it and it wouldn't have such an impact on their careers.
    - repolfx 8y ago
      One reason salaries are high in Switzerland is the men are expected to support an entire family off one salary. If you really want to you can consider the "free" housing, food, heating, car etc as payment to the woman, although that seems unnecessarily materialistic. As for impact on career, this is again a matter of perspective. If parenting is skilled work then arguably raising children is a second career. We don't normally classify parenting as a career but that's just a matter of terminology.
  - swissthrowaway 8y ago
    Swiss logic is that raising children is so important that women should just do that and have no other option. It sounds good, right? Men have all options, women have the options their husband allows them to have (btw, I'm a Swiss male, so I'm bitching about my own country)
- tonyedgecombe 8y ago
  How did we get to the state where staying home and raising kids is regarded so poorly.
  - swissthrowaway 8y ago
    raising kids is the most important thing in a parent's life. But still, not having any other choice than being full-time parent does not suit a modern society, like Switzerland claims to be (and blatanty failing at that)
    - bornabox 8y ago
      Ah come on, that's just not based in reality. I'm Swiss and in all the companies I've worked, there were a lot of women working. Many of them taking advantage of the option to work 60% or 80% (as men do too).
- snarfybarfy 8y ago
  I don't think they are second class citizen. I think that a lot of Swiss women are more privileged than their spouses. A woman with kids can choose whether to stay at home or work (full or part time at their discretion) and plenty of women choose to be stay at home mums. No such choice is given to most fathers.

swissthrowaway 8y ago

In Switzerland, women are still second-class citizens. They're supposed to stay home and raise the kids. Day cares are full with the kids of expats, Swiss kids to the playground with their mothers.

detcader 8y ago
That's really sad to hear. Any pointers to English-speaking and/or prominent Swiss women's rights voices would be appreciated!
- solemsigne 8y ago
  I assume this phenomenon has more to do with the fact that it is not required for two people to work in a household to comfortably sustain it in Switzerland, which allows the women the option to stay at home with adolescents. Maybe they in fact have more rights.
  - izacus 8y ago
    No they don't, there's just a lot of systemic issues that discourage mothers from working - from the insane costs of daycare, increased tax burden for working couples, school system which sends children home during the day and a complete lack of motherhood leave and job guarantees m
cylinder 8y ago
Ah yes poor women spending time with their children rather than slaving away pushing meaningless paper for MegaCorp. Shit life eh?
- throwaway301 8y ago
  Out of the four women I know who are or were pregnant, one was fired immediately after her maternity leave ended, one was forced to go from a 100% to a 20% (one day a week) contract, and one was the target of retaliation by her boss, who felt that it was unfair that she should get pregnant less than three years after she started her job (he told her this in an official setting and cited her pregnancy on her end of year performance appraisal). The fourth was a graduate student in the final year of her studies. She hasn't been able to find a job since, despite having a good background. Two of the four women are Swiss, and the other two are German citizens. Three of the four have graduate university degrees (two in hard sciences) and all have good to stellar resumes. Source: Expat currently living in Switzerland.
  - balladeer 8y ago
    I must be missing something. Because it reads as if it’s extremely shitty for women in Switzerland and that’s a place having above average European standards. I’d assume at least at par with Scandinavia. Or at least that’s how I have come to know it from far.
    - throwaway301 8y ago
      It's complex. From what I've seen, it's largely fine if you're young and don't have children, or if you're older and your children are past the first year of kindergarten. There is still a proverbial glass ceiling in place at a lot of companies, but there are also a lot of examples of women in prominent positions in business and government. It gets difficult - again, from what I've seen - when you run into edge cases that brush up against how things are traditionally done. I don't think that a lot of companies have gotten a handle on how to accommodate women with children. For example, average working hours can easily go past 17:30, but most kinderkrippe close at 18:00. There are also social expectations that are hard to interpret or otherwise navigate, especially if you're not a native citizen and didn't grow up in the culture. I think that the situation isn't that different from a lot of other European countries, and it also appears to be improving (even in my limited time here, I've noticed that there has been a lot of discussion around the gender pay gap, and a stronger focus on accommodating women with children at work).
toasterlovin 8y ago
Glad to know you think raising children isn't important work.
- DanBC 8y ago
  If it was seen as important work they'd be paid for it and it wouldn't have such an impact on their careers.
  - repolfx 8y ago
    One reason salaries are high in Switzerland is the men are expected to support an entire family off one salary. If you really want to you can consider the "free" housing, food, heating, car etc as payment to the woman, although that seems unnecessarily materialistic. As for impact on career, this is again a matter of perspective. If parenting is skilled work then arguably raising children is a second career. We don't normally classify parenting as a career but that's just a matter of terminology.
- swissthrowaway 8y ago
  Swiss logic is that raising children is so important that women should just do that and have no other option. It sounds good, right? Men have all options, women have the options their husband allows them to have (btw, I'm a Swiss male, so I'm bitching about my own country)
tonyedgecombe 8y ago
How did we get to the state where staying home and raising kids is regarded so poorly.
- swissthrowaway 8y ago
  raising kids is the most important thing in a parent's life. But still, not having any other choice than being full-time parent does not suit a modern society, like Switzerland claims to be (and blatanty failing at that)
  - bornabox 8y ago
    Ah come on, that's just not based in reality. I'm Swiss and in all the companies I've worked, there were a lot of women working. Many of them taking advantage of the option to work 60% or 80% (as men do too).
snarfybarfy 8y ago
I don't think they are second class citizen. I think that a lot of Swiss women are more privileged than their spouses. A woman with kids can choose whether to stay at home or work (full or part time at their discretion) and plenty of women choose to be stay at home mums. No such choice is given to most fathers.