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Assuming we want customs officials doing anything terrorism related at all (which I'm not convinced of) this doesn't seem bad. Basically they made him socially

Assuming we want customs officials doing anything terrorism related at all (which I'm not convinced of) this doesn't seem bad. Basically they made him socially uncomfortable for a while, and sent him on his way. They didn't take any of his stuff, they only detained him for an hour and a half. Overall it seems about as inconvenient as a flight delay.

yread 16y ago
plus they bugged his phone and put him on a list for private screening
dkarl 16y ago
Nice to know that if they don't have any legal way of stopping you or coercing information out of you, they'll only resort to harassment and intimidation for a little while before letting you go. Of course, the Customs Officer ignored the other four books and while holding up the book of quotes from the Prophet, proceeded to repeatedly scream “Do you believe in the words of the Prophet Mohammed?” over and over again while standing one foot away from my face. Every time I tried to mention the other books, and the one time I tried to ask why that question was even relevant, I was immediately cut off and told to be quiet. So in the end, the only reply I gave to his question was, “What?” They love yelling, and it isn't because they want you answer or comply. Apparently yelling serves some purpose in itself. Whenever someone shows me a police video, I take careful note of when they stop yelling variations on "Get down on the ground!" I saw one recently where the police fatally shot a guy (completely justified; he actually attacked a cop who was holding a gun on him, and another cop shot him) and one cop yelled "Get down!" or "Get down on the ground" at him three times after he had already fallen on the pavement.... I saw nothing inappropriate in the shooting, but I got a morbid chuckle out of the cop screaming at the dude to comply when the dude was already flat on the ground motionless and bleeding. It's also pretty shocking to watch the video of the guy being shot in the BART station in Oakland and try to figure out in what way he was resisting the two cops who were holding him face down on the ground while he was handcuffed. The cop who shot him kept yelling at him to stop resisting and then just popped him. He was -- what, shifting his weight? Trying to raise his head to answer their questions? Who knows. No level of compliance would have saved him, just like the guy who wrote this article didn't actually have to answer the questions. They just wanted to yell at him; they didn't want answers.
- pyre 16y ago
  > Nice to know that if they don't have any legal way > of stopping you or coercing information out of you, > they'll only resort to harassment and intimidation > for a little while before letting you go. The point of yelling at him, and repeating the question was an attempt to 'throw him off his game.' Hopefully, you'll get him frustrated enough that he'll let slip something that give him away. It's a hell of a lot better than waterboarding him in the back room at the airport. > They love yelling, and it isn't because they want you > answer or comply. Apparently yelling serves some purpose > in itself. Explained above. Granted they might be able to achieve the same result by using a line of questioning that keeps circling back in on itself with slight variations of the same question being repeated over and over again (sans yelling).
  - dkarl 16y ago
    Here's an idea: why don't they pick on people who have actually done something wrong, and then use that wrongdoing to put legal pressure on them? Justice is built into the system: do something wrong, and you'll have an unpleasant experience. Don't do anything wrong, and you won't be yelled at and intimidated and possibly made to miss your flight. In addition, instead of using empty threats and just hoping that a criminal or trained terrorist will be so unnerved by your bullying that they voluntarily incriminate themselves, you will have a credible threat of consequences and therefore a real incentive for them to cooperate.
    - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
      >you will have a credible threat of consequences and therefore a real incentive for them to cooperate This will definitely work against anyone who is expecting to die in the process of carrying terrorist activities. Don't ban guns from schools, just tell them to play nice or they'll get detention.
      - pyre 16y ago
        Most of the people willing to die in the process of a terrorist attack, aren't looking towards consequences (i.e. they won't deal with any after they are dead), but they will have to deal with consequences if they are imprisoned before they can carry out their attack.
petsos 16y ago
The problem is that they are indeed just doing terrorism related things. They are not actually preventing terrorism. How ignorant do you have to be to think that bringing back Osama Bin Laden candy is suspicious?
kenjackson 16y ago
Before 9/11 I went through customs in the France or Austria (can't recall which now). AFAIK, there was nothing at all suspicious about me, but they took me aside and did similar things. And they even took some cookies I was eating. I had no drugs, cigarettes, weapons, CDs -- I didn't even have a laptop or MP3 player. To this day I have no idea what it was about. Still kind of PO'ed about the cookies.

yread 16y ago

plus they bugged his phone and put him on a list for private screening

dkarl 16y ago

Nice to know that if they don't have any legal way of stopping you or coercing information out of you, they'll only resort to harassment and intimidation for a little while before letting you go. Of course, the Customs Officer ignored the other four books and while holding up the book of quotes from the Prophet, proceeded to repeatedly scream “Do you believe in the words of the Prophet Mohammed?” over and over again while standing one foot away from my face. Every time I tried to mention the other books, and the one time I tried to ask why that question was even relevant, I was immediately cut off and told to be quiet. So in the end, the only reply I gave to his question was, “What?” They love yelling, and it isn't because they want you answer or comply. Apparently yelling serves some purpose in itself. Whenever someone shows me a police video, I take careful note of when they stop yelling variations on "Get down on the ground!" I saw one recently where the police fatally shot a guy (completely justified; he actually attacked a cop who was holding a gun on him, and another cop shot him) and one cop yelled "Get down!" or "Get down on the ground" at him three times after he had already fallen on the pavement.... I saw nothing inappropriate in the shooting, but I got a morbid chuckle out of the cop screaming at the dude to comply when the dude was already flat on the ground motionless and bleeding. It's also pretty shocking to watch the video of the guy being shot in the BART station in Oakland and try to figure out in what way he was resisting the two cops who were holding him face down on the ground while he was handcuffed. The cop who shot him kept yelling at him to stop resisting and then just popped him. He was -- what, shifting his weight? Trying to raise his head to answer their questions? Who knows. No level of compliance would have saved him, just like the guy who wrote this article didn't actually have to answer the questions. They just wanted to yell at him; they didn't want answers.

pyre 16y ago
> Nice to know that if they don't have any legal way > of stopping you or coercing information out of you, > they'll only resort to harassment and intimidation > for a little while before letting you go. The point of yelling at him, and repeating the question was an attempt to 'throw him off his game.' Hopefully, you'll get him frustrated enough that he'll let slip something that give him away. It's a hell of a lot better than waterboarding him in the back room at the airport. > They love yelling, and it isn't because they want you > answer or comply. Apparently yelling serves some purpose > in itself. Explained above. Granted they might be able to achieve the same result by using a line of questioning that keeps circling back in on itself with slight variations of the same question being repeated over and over again (sans yelling).
- dkarl 16y ago
  Here's an idea: why don't they pick on people who have actually done something wrong, and then use that wrongdoing to put legal pressure on them? Justice is built into the system: do something wrong, and you'll have an unpleasant experience. Don't do anything wrong, and you won't be yelled at and intimidated and possibly made to miss your flight. In addition, instead of using empty threats and just hoping that a criminal or trained terrorist will be so unnerved by your bullying that they voluntarily incriminate themselves, you will have a credible threat of consequences and therefore a real incentive for them to cooperate.
  - pbhjpbhj 16y ago
    >you will have a credible threat of consequences and therefore a real incentive for them to cooperate This will definitely work against anyone who is expecting to die in the process of carrying terrorist activities. Don't ban guns from schools, just tell them to play nice or they'll get detention.
    - pyre 16y ago
      Most of the people willing to die in the process of a terrorist attack, aren't looking towards consequences (i.e. they won't deal with any after they are dead), but they will have to deal with consequences if they are imprisoned before they can carry out their attack.

petsos 16y ago

The problem is that they are indeed just doing terrorism related things. They are not actually preventing terrorism. How ignorant do you have to be to think that bringing back Osama Bin Laden candy is suspicious?

kenjackson 16y ago

Before 9/11 I went through customs in the France or Austria (can't recall which now). AFAIK, there was nothing at all suspicious about me, but they took me aside and did similar things. And they even took some cookies I was eating. I had no drugs, cigarettes, weapons, CDs -- I didn't even have a laptop or MP3 player. To this day I have no idea what it was about. Still kind of PO'ed about the cookies.