4 ms·

This was an interesting list, but I’d be more interested in reading examples of how these assumptions are manifested as erroneous design decisions. For example

by danso 8y ago

This was an interesting list, but I’d be more interested in reading examples of how these assumptions are manifested as erroneous design decisions. For example, many of the flawed assumptions are a variation of “Names don’t change/vary, ever”. I think most U.S. programmers are very aware of this — especially the many who have some variation of a name like “Mike/Michael”, “Dan/Daniel”, “Kate/Katlyn/Katherine”. But it took me a bit to figure out where a programmer would most likely forget that fact, in a way that’s a disservice to users — making a database system that assumes the first name/surname fields should never be updated.

pjc50 8y ago
There's a lot of systems which seem to assume that name changes are of fraudulent intent, rather than being fairly routine when women get married. Let alone the long list of other reasons to change one's name.
- pbhjpbhj 8y ago
  Men change their name on marriage too, not that often in my culture, but it happens. Children also change their name when their parents marry, and sometimes change it back (my father did that).
Piskvorrr 8y ago
Updated? That's a design error right there. "Nope, can't give you the records of Jane Doe from 2005, you are in our system as Jane Smith. You had a different name then? Doesn't compute!" In other words, the old name needs to be kept, the new one is not a fix from an erroneous state: it used to be correct then, the new one is correct now, and you still need to match on both. Why? Because changes never propagate instantly, if they propagate at all: I still get mail addressed to my mother (who hasn't lived here for decades), addressed to her previous name (another decade on top of that), into my mailbox, even though no trace of any of those names remains. As far as the post office goes, "XY Street 123, box 45" is still the residence of Mrs Foo. (That's actually a counterexample, yeah)
- 0db532a0 8y ago
  Interested question: Why shouldn’t names be updated in-place?
  - Piskvorrr 8y ago
    If you do have a denormalized "this is a current name" column, sure, go ahead. But the example is right above you: you might need to match not just on a current name, but on historical names as well. People change their names a lot.
    - 0db532a0 8y ago
      That’s true, actually. I didn’t read the reply properly. It makes complete sense to ban updates if you want to have access to historical names.
yen223 8y ago
The whole concept of using your mother's maiden name as some kind of secret is already dodgy in Western cultures, but it's even dumber when they do it in cultures where women don't change their name after marriage.
- freehunter 8y ago
  I have a coworker whose last name is the same as his mother's maiden name and a form asked him his mother's maiden name but would not allow the answer to be the same as his current name, for "security reasons". He had quite a field day showing that around to every programmer at the company.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Here's one for name changes - my brother-in-law has the same call name as me, my first given name; and we share a surname initial so have the same nickname (like TJ). So I go by my middle name, sometimes. My late uncle just flat out changed his name by use when he started a new role post-retirement. Which I found weird. At funerals it seems relatively common, IMLE, to hear "X better known to many of you as Y ...".
- theluketaylor 8y ago
  Your funeral experience is certainly shared with me, especially when in comes to more distant, older relatives. I have been to several funerals where I learned someone's actual birth name and had never realized I knew them by a nickname or middle name. My paternal grandfather was named Howard, but only went by Red from a fairly early age, a reference to pretty extreme red hair. By the time I was born his hair was neither red nor present, but the name was forever. His youngest son (my uncle) is also named Howard and is also a notable redhead, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone call him anything but Howie. My brother in law is Alexander. Except he uses his middle name that starts with a J. He has 4 brothers, all whom also have a middle name that starts with J that they use day to day. My father and brother in law's names are also homonyms, so in emails making plans it's always clear who is being referenced, but when someone shouts from the other room it's confusion. Names are weird.

by danso 8y ago

pjc50 8y ago

There's a lot of systems which seem to assume that name changes are of fraudulent intent, rather than being fairly routine when women get married. Let alone the long list of other reasons to change one's name.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago
Men change their name on marriage too, not that often in my culture, but it happens. Children also change their name when their parents marry, and sometimes change it back (my father did that).

Piskvorrr 8y ago

Updated? That's a design error right there. "Nope, can't give you the records of Jane Doe from 2005, you are in our system as Jane Smith. You had a different name then? Doesn't compute!" In other words, the old name needs to be kept, the new one is not a fix from an erroneous state: it used to be correct then, the new one is correct now, and you still need to match on both. Why? Because changes never propagate instantly, if they propagate at all: I still get mail addressed to my mother (who hasn't lived here for decades), addressed to her previous name (another decade on top of that), into my mailbox, even though no trace of any of those names remains. As far as the post office goes, "XY Street 123, box 45" is still the residence of Mrs Foo. (That's actually a counterexample, yeah)

0db532a0 8y ago
Interested question: Why shouldn’t names be updated in-place?
- Piskvorrr 8y ago
  If you do have a denormalized "this is a current name" column, sure, go ahead. But the example is right above you: you might need to match not just on a current name, but on historical names as well. People change their names a lot.
  - 0db532a0 8y ago
    That’s true, actually. I didn’t read the reply properly. It makes complete sense to ban updates if you want to have access to historical names.

yen223 8y ago

The whole concept of using your mother's maiden name as some kind of secret is already dodgy in Western cultures, but it's even dumber when they do it in cultures where women don't change their name after marriage.

freehunter 8y ago
I have a coworker whose last name is the same as his mother's maiden name and a form asked him his mother's maiden name but would not allow the answer to be the same as his current name, for "security reasons". He had quite a field day showing that around to every programmer at the company.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

Here's one for name changes - my brother-in-law has the same call name as me, my first given name; and we share a surname initial so have the same nickname (like TJ). So I go by my middle name, sometimes. My late uncle just flat out changed his name by use when he started a new role post-retirement. Which I found weird. At funerals it seems relatively common, IMLE, to hear "X better known to many of you as Y ...".

theluketaylor 8y ago
Your funeral experience is certainly shared with me, especially when in comes to more distant, older relatives. I have been to several funerals where I learned someone's actual birth name and had never realized I knew them by a nickname or middle name. My paternal grandfather was named Howard, but only went by Red from a fairly early age, a reference to pretty extreme red hair. By the time I was born his hair was neither red nor present, but the name was forever. His youngest son (my uncle) is also named Howard and is also a notable redhead, but I don't think I've ever heard anyone call him anything but Howie. My brother in law is Alexander. Except he uses his middle name that starts with a J. He has 4 brothers, all whom also have a middle name that starts with J that they use day to day. My father and brother in law's names are also homonyms, so in emails making plans it's always clear who is being referenced, but when someone shouts from the other room it's confusion. Names are weird.