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Korolev and von Braun are the most important pioneers of space flight. Korolev was brutalized and nearly beaten to death (he could not even turn his head to loo

Korolev and von Braun are the most important pioneers of space flight. Korolev was brutalized and nearly beaten to death (he could not even turn his head to look to the side) in his stint in the gulags resulting from false accusations; and meanwhile the American efforts, like the Vanguard program and others, injected so much politics, beauracracy and corruption that we were actually losing the space race until Kennedy put a literal nazi--who had been rotting away with nothing to do in Texas--in charge of the Apollo program. There's often an extreme ugliness to human history that we dont want to look at, and An Economist word salad can read relatively like a nursery rhyme. The reality is just that simply the main obstacle to what humanity can accomplish, and the answer to the article's question, is just people screwing things up.

codeulike 8y ago
Kennedy put a literal nazi--who had been rotting away with nothing to do in Texas--in charge of the Apollo program. Who? edit: Ah, this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun
- mmjaa 8y ago
  The USA put a lot of Nazi's to use after the war. 1,600 of them went off to be part of the CIA. We can see how successful that integration went .. EDIT: Yes, I know, it makes you feel uncomfortable, Americans. But it is an uncomfortable truth that has to be confronted sooner or later - Nazi's helped build the CIA. https://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/31/the_nazis_next_door_eric_lichtblau https://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/31/the_nazis_next_door_...
  - yostrovs 8y ago
    The rest of the Nazis mostly stayed in Germany, mostly unharassed and given jobs like running the foreign ministry.
    - mmjaa 8y ago
      Yes, but 1600 of them escaped to live the American dream, protected by America's military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex and they went on to create the society we have today: impervious to any reproach over its war crimes and crimes against humanity, the American empire rules us all and continues the effort to rid the world of unsavoury cultures deemed inferior by the hidden elite... American's need to educate themselves about just how much their hallowed CIA was usurped by the Nazi elite. Its a sham to consider America free of their influence.
  - josefresco 8y ago
    Post WWII (and even before the end) the US quickly pivoted towards the "cold war" with the Soviet Union. From the interview you linked: "...Dulles was one of the intelligence titans of the 1950s, one of the original cold warriors. And he was someone who believed that there were, quote-unquote, “moderate Nazis,” his words, who the U.S. could use to its advantage in the Cold War. And he actively recruited them himself and, in a number of cases, intervened on their behalf when they were facing accusations about their past, about their involvement in Nazi war crimes. And he and J. Edgar Hoover were really the two linchpins in this, in developing this strategy of recruiting ex-Nazis as cold warriors, as anti-Soviet assets who, they believe, could gather intelligence for the U.S." Dulles was not a perfect man, and holds much of the blame when it comes to US/corporate colonialism but to suggest the CIA was "built with" Nazis is taking it too far. To suggest that the Nazi legacy of the CIA somehow is connected to current day abuses of power is an even further leap of logic. Dulles saw former Nazis as valuable tools in his war/wars - there's not much else to it. Recommended reading if you're curious about the CIA and it's origins, and how it effected/effects US policy: https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret/dp/0805094970 https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret/d...
    - mmjaa 8y ago
      >To suggest that the Nazi legacy of the CIA somehow is connected to current day abuses of power is an even further leap of logic. On the contrary: MK ULTRA. Agent Orange. Secret torture sites.
      - josefresco 8y ago
        Torture and abhorrent behavior is not exclusive to Nazis. How many other intelligence agencies have used barbaric tactics to extract information to keep their homeland safe? I just don't see the direct connection - doesn't make it any less wrong, I just don't see the evidence that it's directly influenced by this connection.
        mmjaa 8y ago
        MK ULTRA was a Nazi program that continued in the CIA. The development of Agent Orange: same. Modern torture techniques? Yes, same deal. The Nazi's escaped and made America their new playground. This is why we have had endless war and crimes against humanity being committed by the people of the USA .. for decades now ..

codeulike 8y ago

Kennedy put a literal nazi--who had been rotting away with nothing to do in Texas--in charge of the Apollo program. Who? edit: Ah, this guy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun

mmjaa 8y ago
The USA put a lot of Nazi's to use after the war. 1,600 of them went off to be part of the CIA. We can see how successful that integration went .. EDIT: Yes, I know, it makes you feel uncomfortable, Americans. But it is an uncomfortable truth that has to be confronted sooner or later - Nazi's helped build the CIA. https://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/31/the_nazis_next_door_eric_lichtblau https://www.democracynow.org/2014/10/31/the_nazis_next_door_...
- yostrovs 8y ago
  The rest of the Nazis mostly stayed in Germany, mostly unharassed and given jobs like running the foreign ministry.
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    Yes, but 1600 of them escaped to live the American dream, protected by America's military-industrial-pharmaceutical complex and they went on to create the society we have today: impervious to any reproach over its war crimes and crimes against humanity, the American empire rules us all and continues the effort to rid the world of unsavoury cultures deemed inferior by the hidden elite... American's need to educate themselves about just how much their hallowed CIA was usurped by the Nazi elite. Its a sham to consider America free of their influence.
- josefresco 8y ago
  Post WWII (and even before the end) the US quickly pivoted towards the "cold war" with the Soviet Union. From the interview you linked: "...Dulles was one of the intelligence titans of the 1950s, one of the original cold warriors. And he was someone who believed that there were, quote-unquote, “moderate Nazis,” his words, who the U.S. could use to its advantage in the Cold War. And he actively recruited them himself and, in a number of cases, intervened on their behalf when they were facing accusations about their past, about their involvement in Nazi war crimes. And he and J. Edgar Hoover were really the two linchpins in this, in developing this strategy of recruiting ex-Nazis as cold warriors, as anti-Soviet assets who, they believe, could gather intelligence for the U.S." Dulles was not a perfect man, and holds much of the blame when it comes to US/corporate colonialism but to suggest the CIA was "built with" Nazis is taking it too far. To suggest that the Nazi legacy of the CIA somehow is connected to current day abuses of power is an even further leap of logic. Dulles saw former Nazis as valuable tools in his war/wars - there's not much else to it. Recommended reading if you're curious about the CIA and it's origins, and how it effected/effects US policy: https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret/dp/0805094970 https://www.amazon.com/Brothers-Foster-Dulles-Allen-Secret/d...
  - mmjaa 8y ago
    >To suggest that the Nazi legacy of the CIA somehow is connected to current day abuses of power is an even further leap of logic. On the contrary: MK ULTRA. Agent Orange. Secret torture sites.
    - josefresco 8y ago
      Torture and abhorrent behavior is not exclusive to Nazis. How many other intelligence agencies have used barbaric tactics to extract information to keep their homeland safe? I just don't see the direct connection - doesn't make it any less wrong, I just don't see the evidence that it's directly influenced by this connection.
      - mmjaa 8y ago
        MK ULTRA was a Nazi program that continued in the CIA. The development of Agent Orange: same. Modern torture techniques? Yes, same deal. The Nazi's escaped and made America their new playground. This is why we have had endless war and crimes against humanity being committed by the people of the USA .. for decades now ..