5 ms·

To be honest, I'm not sure how teachers get and keep their jobs, but as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded ever

To be honest, I'm not sure how teachers get and keep their jobs, but as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills. My girlfriend is studying in a distance university, so she basically never meets any of her teachers. This year she has to do practices at a chosen company, and she got a teacher assigned to her who is supposed to "help" her. In her study guides it is written that the teacher has to give her classes every week. After first contact the teacher said that she will give every information by email (or other kind of online communication), and won't waste the students' precious time with classes. At first this sounded awesome, because my girlfriend has a lot to do in her last year. BUT... Since then 2 months have passed, the teacher has been repeatedly asked to keep at least a few classes, because things are not moving forward. She ignores her messages for days, answers in very short sentences, and although it is mandatory for her to keep the classes, she is always "busy" at those times and doesn't offer any other dates, so it is impossible to meet her. My girlfriend spends crazy hours combing through PDFs hoping to find information on how to do her practices, what she should prepare, how to write her work diary, etc. And the other day, when she tried to contact the teacher's higher-ups to do something about this, one guy basically shouted at her, on the phone, saying that she is making her teacher look bad, even though the said theacher works really hard, and she should just listen to the teacher and let her be. After some of this preaching he just put the phone down. It has been a really frustrating experience for us.

joe_the_user 8y ago
To be honest, I'm not sure how teachers get and keep their jobs, but as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills. Well, to be honest, I really wish everyone who wants to one more hurdle in front of teachers should understand the correlation between bad teaching and teachers having a low-paid, unrewarding and effectively abusive job. Lousy teachers keep their job because no one highly competent wants these jobs. Lousy teachers keep their job because a huge array of bureaucratic song-and-dance exists and people good at that can be bad at teaching. I'm sorry you had that experience but you might consider looking at the system. Corporate customer support is terrible, let's all call for more test-of-competence for these low paid flunkies too. That will address the problem.
- lliamander 8y ago
  True - stricter performance evaluations aren't going to solve problems caused by a poor hiring pool.
  - TeMPOraL 8y ago
    Poor hiring pool and work mistreatment, that actively prevents teachers from teaching well, while simultaneously piling lots of bullshit work on them.
    - dorchadas 8y ago
      Hey, this sounds like exactly why I'm working on moving out of (secondary) teaching. I didn't mind the pay, being single on a low CoL area and the benefits were good... But the bullshit is killing me, as is the lack of respect from parents in a highly anti-intellectual county (I never realized how bad it was until I returned as a teacher) who demand that Little Johnny pass when he just wants to play Fortnite all class period and never turn in work.
- eagsalazar2 8y ago
  There is something to what you are saying but it is also true that many many aspiring teachers wash out because they can't even get their first job after getting their teaching degree. It _is_ a competitive market in many places but the market _isn't_ functioning as it should because of dysfunctional relationships with unions and tenure.
  - joe_the_user 8y ago
    It _is_ a competitive market in many places but the market _isn't_ functioning as it should because of dysfunctional relationships with unions and tenure. Unions? Really? Not administrators and profit institutions cutting college teachers' salaries to the bone, creating a situation adjunct professors literally starve to death in the process. No, unions. And tenure is your other complaint? The job guarantee that no longer applies to most college teachers today. Why not complain that the average teach still is able to sleep at night and has roof over their head? Okay then. Unions have their flaws but it was that way well before the current disastrous regime. And sure, teaching is competitive market because even with all the horrors, lots of people want to teach because it's something to believe in, in this horrible and the bureaucracy, that unions are at best a junior partner in, do make it hard.
flashman 8y ago
> as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills If a teacher grades a student poorly, there can be repercussions. They have an incentive to grade fairly and accurately. The same isn't true of students, who can grade on feelings and grudges. Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. Students aren't trained as educators, so why would they be any good at evaluating their teachers? Student evaluations lack even the smallest part of the rigor that they should contain. They are practically worthless.
- ergothus 8y ago
  > If a teacher grades a student poorly, there can be repercussions. Yes, but the above poster was talking about TEACHING poorly. It is easy enough to expect students to know things at the end of class, but harder to be of use in them learning that material. > Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. Some are. Maybe even most. But definitely not a universally true statement, particularly in areas where teacher pay is dramatically out of line with industry wages. > Students aren't trained as educators, so why would they be any good at evaluating their teachers? Fair point. But as pointed out by others, there are few other forms of evaluation/accountability. And while a student may not be able to identify WHY they struggled to learn, they can certainly evaluate IF they did. If many students agree, that's a problem best addressed quickly. I teach a university class (just one, my day job is coding) and I've been utterly amazed at the lack of accountability applied to me and my peers. Meanwhile I have friends that teach teens, and the bureaucracy and policies they must follow seem just as bad, but in the opposite direction. If you have a good alternative to student evaluations, please share, otherwise I'll agree with the flaws you listed but still find them better to have than not.
  - chithanh 8y ago
    >> Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. > Some are. Maybe even most. But definitely not a universally true statement, particularly in areas where teacher pay is dramatically out of line with industry wages. So you say that if we find out which teachers are incompetent and actually kick them out, we would need to raise teacher wages to the point of being competitive with the industry? Sounds like a win-win to me.
kruczek 8y ago
> I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills. They are, or at least used to be. At least at high schools in Poland, teachers would get occasional visits from higher ups who observed their lessons and would give them feedback.
keithpeter 8y ago
UK: when I was involved with teacher training at a local university, I had to act as placement tutor for around 15 training teachers - all graduates with good UK first degrees in a range of subjects. I had to observe each of the training teachers half a dozen times, and that process included checking the planning of their lessons (before the lesson!), providing feedback on the lesson itself and identifying issues to work on for the next lesson. Each training teacher had a placement mentor as well whose classes the training teacher taught under supervision initially. I was also responsible for supporting the placement mentor in the mentoring role. Everything got recorded in an online system - the training teachers did their reflective writing &c and I read their blog posts (private blogs!) and tried to support. Managers at the University (relevant ones) could access the blogs and help out with any more serious issues. I had direct contact with the mentors as well in case they had issues to discuss. Probably the hardest teaching job I did in a 30 year career. But almost all of the training teachers are working in local colleges and schools.
- nicoburns 8y ago
  A big issue with education in the UK is that university lecturers generally get zero teacher training. Consequently, teaching quality at undergraduate level is widely variable.
  - keithpeter 8y ago
    Teacher training is subject to OFSTED every two years (or was) and so things are pretty tight. Teaching standards in general undergraduate courses are being slowly pulled up - but I know what you mean.

joe_the_user 8y ago

To be honest, I'm not sure how teachers get and keep their jobs, but as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills. Well, to be honest, I really wish everyone who wants to one more hurdle in front of teachers should understand the correlation between bad teaching and teachers having a low-paid, unrewarding and effectively abusive job. Lousy teachers keep their job because no one highly competent wants these jobs. Lousy teachers keep their job because a huge array of bureaucratic song-and-dance exists and people good at that can be bad at teaching. I'm sorry you had that experience but you might consider looking at the system. Corporate customer support is terrible, let's all call for more test-of-competence for these low paid flunkies too. That will address the problem.

lliamander 8y ago
True - stricter performance evaluations aren't going to solve problems caused by a poor hiring pool.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  Poor hiring pool and work mistreatment, that actively prevents teachers from teaching well, while simultaneously piling lots of bullshit work on them.
  - dorchadas 8y ago
    Hey, this sounds like exactly why I'm working on moving out of (secondary) teaching. I didn't mind the pay, being single on a low CoL area and the benefits were good... But the bullshit is killing me, as is the lack of respect from parents in a highly anti-intellectual county (I never realized how bad it was until I returned as a teacher) who demand that Little Johnny pass when he just wants to play Fortnite all class period and never turn in work.
eagsalazar2 8y ago
There is something to what you are saying but it is also true that many many aspiring teachers wash out because they can't even get their first job after getting their teaching degree. It _is_ a competitive market in many places but the market _isn't_ functioning as it should because of dysfunctional relationships with unions and tenure.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  It _is_ a competitive market in many places but the market _isn't_ functioning as it should because of dysfunctional relationships with unions and tenure. Unions? Really? Not administrators and profit institutions cutting college teachers' salaries to the bone, creating a situation adjunct professors literally starve to death in the process. No, unions. And tenure is your other complaint? The job guarantee that no longer applies to most college teachers today. Why not complain that the average teach still is able to sleep at night and has roof over their head? Okay then. Unions have their flaws but it was that way well before the current disastrous regime. And sure, teaching is competitive market because even with all the horrors, lots of people want to teach because it's something to believe in, in this horrible and the bureaucracy, that unions are at best a junior partner in, do make it hard.

flashman 8y ago

> as students are graded on their studying skills, I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills If a teacher grades a student poorly, there can be repercussions. They have an incentive to grade fairly and accurately. The same isn't true of students, who can grade on feelings and grudges. Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. Students aren't trained as educators, so why would they be any good at evaluating their teachers? Student evaluations lack even the smallest part of the rigor that they should contain. They are practically worthless.

ergothus 8y ago
> If a teacher grades a student poorly, there can be repercussions. Yes, but the above poster was talking about TEACHING poorly. It is easy enough to expect students to know things at the end of class, but harder to be of use in them learning that material. > Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. Some are. Maybe even most. But definitely not a universally true statement, particularly in areas where teacher pay is dramatically out of line with industry wages. > Students aren't trained as educators, so why would they be any good at evaluating their teachers? Fair point. But as pointed out by others, there are few other forms of evaluation/accountability. And while a student may not be able to identify WHY they struggled to learn, they can certainly evaluate IF they did. If many students agree, that's a problem best addressed quickly. I teach a university class (just one, my day job is coding) and I've been utterly amazed at the lack of accountability applied to me and my peers. Meanwhile I have friends that teach teens, and the bureaucracy and policies they must follow seem just as bad, but in the opposite direction. If you have a good alternative to student evaluations, please share, otherwise I'll agree with the flaws you listed but still find them better to have than not.
- chithanh 8y ago
  >> Teachers are also subject matter experts in the material being graded. > Some are. Maybe even most. But definitely not a universally true statement, particularly in areas where teacher pay is dramatically out of line with industry wages. So you say that if we find out which teachers are incompetent and actually kick them out, we would need to raise teacher wages to the point of being competitive with the industry? Sounds like a win-win to me.

kruczek 8y ago

> I feel like teachers should be graded every fews years on their teaching skills. They are, or at least used to be. At least at high schools in Poland, teachers would get occasional visits from higher ups who observed their lessons and would give them feedback.

keithpeter 8y ago

UK: when I was involved with teacher training at a local university, I had to act as placement tutor for around 15 training teachers - all graduates with good UK first degrees in a range of subjects. I had to observe each of the training teachers half a dozen times, and that process included checking the planning of their lessons (before the lesson!), providing feedback on the lesson itself and identifying issues to work on for the next lesson. Each training teacher had a placement mentor as well whose classes the training teacher taught under supervision initially. I was also responsible for supporting the placement mentor in the mentoring role. Everything got recorded in an online system - the training teachers did their reflective writing &c and I read their blog posts (private blogs!) and tried to support. Managers at the University (relevant ones) could access the blogs and help out with any more serious issues. I had direct contact with the mentors as well in case they had issues to discuss. Probably the hardest teaching job I did in a 30 year career. But almost all of the training teachers are working in local colleges and schools.

nicoburns 8y ago
A big issue with education in the UK is that university lecturers generally get zero teacher training. Consequently, teaching quality at undergraduate level is widely variable.
- keithpeter 8y ago
  Teacher training is subject to OFSTED every two years (or was) and so things are pretty tight. Teaching standards in general undergraduate courses are being slowly pulled up - but I know what you mean.