5 ms·
It's interesting to think that the goal of '..' was for navigation around the command line shell. Which is a tool that 95% of people developing software never
by koblas 8y ago
It's interesting to think that the goal of '..' was for navigation around the command line shell. Which is a tool that 95% of people developing software never really use, or use as a necessity (type one command and leave). It's really an interesting thought piece to consider that the idea of the '..' directory is as legacy as the headphone jack.
- settler4 8y agoMaybe if your experience using a shell is only Window's CMD. I live in the shell. My Linux machines are configured to automatically open a terminal upon login and the first thing I do when I get a new Windows installation is getting bash working on it even if it's not for development.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoDevelopers who don't use a command-line shell, at least some of the time, aren't much of a developer.
- rjplatte 8y agoI think he means that people who use IDEs don't use shell file navigation as often.
- koblas 8y agoYes, that is exactly what I mean. The majority of people developing software are doing it inside of Visual Studio Code or similar tools, where their only exposure to the command line is when they do "create-app"
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Meph504 8y agoYou keep using the unqualified term "majority" with no way to actually back that up. This would probably be less critized if you stated it as your opinion (which it is) and not as a definitive statement.
- dictum 8y agoEven a qualified appeal to the majority isn't a very good argument. There are many scenarios where the majority of events is caused by a minority of individuals. For instance, 20% of developers could be responsible for 80% of all software, or 80% of the most used software, or the software that generates 80% of GDP, etc.
- asveikau 8y agoI think there could be a generational difference or "how you learned" angle at play here. For me learning the command line and early computer use went hand in hand. And I simply could not possibly imagine using git or other source control through an IDE and not a CLI. (I know they offer it, but it just doesn't seem natural.)
- perl4ever 8y agoThere may also be a factor in whether you learned to program as a child or at a university where Unix culture was dominant. I learned to program (in the sense of writing programs in a compiled language) around the time the Macintosh and Amiga came out, before free Unix-like OSes on your PC were much of a thing. So while the Amiga did have a command line, and so did Macintosh Programmer's Workshop, I mostly saw a command line as the obsolete interface associated with MS-DOS. Obviously source code control was not a thing for a kid programming in the 80s. Even though I have more recently used git than any other source control, I don't think the horrible interface has anything to do with its utility. You may like it, you may hate it, but it doesn't have to be like it is, it's just the personality it has. Kind of like Linus and his grouchiness.
- loeg 8y agoAnecdotal, but I learned to program as a kid prior to college using free Ubuntu CDs[0], and became familiar with the command line sort of by necessity. [0]: Ubuntu used to mail you an install CD, for free, anywhere in the world. In the early 2000s. It was pretty cool.
- perl4ever 8y agoI've been using Linux for roughly 20 years, and I prefer the command line. But that's only because it's Linux. There's no inherent need to do a lot of things with a command line except in a context where it's the simplest, most stable, predictable, and documented way purely because of historical and cultural reasons. Because of the long running Linux/Windows rivalry, hardly anybody can imagine something better than a Unix-clone any more. But the very name Unix was chosen because the original OS was not intended to be the be-all/end-all of OSes.
- Zarel 8y agoFor the record, I use VS Code, but the fastest way to _open_ VS Code is cd project-name code . It also lets me type Git commands directly into the terminal, which is way faster than doing it through VS Code. And there are still plenty of things, like rebasing, which VS Code doesn't have GUI support for.
- rjplatte 8y agoThis is what I do. I use the command line fairly often.
- Shish2k 8y ago> The majority of people developing software are doing it inside of Visual Studio Code or similar tools I'm assuming this is an anecdote rather than data? Looking around my office, 19 out of 20 people are using the "xterm and chrome are the only two apps I run on my laptop" style of development; only one has a graphical IDE + chrome
- overgard 8y agoThat’s pretty harsh, it really depends on the platform/project. If you’re doing a lot of development on windows for example you’re probably not doing a ton on the command line (not everyone is on a Mac doing web or mobile). I know doing Unity3d game development in windows 10 the only time I really use the command line is when I need to do something in git that sourcetree can’t do. And I know the command line plenty well! There’s just no huge reason for this current project. Plus some languages sort of have their own customs. Like if you were doing Smalltalk a lot of things you’d use a command line for in web development or mobile dev you’d use a workspace in the IDE instead. And then you have Lisp, where people used to joke that Emacs had become its own OS essentially.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoSure you can find focused exceptions, but the command-line+scripting is the cross-platform interface for developers, power users, and admins. Even MS finally succumbed to reality when Ballmer finally got the boot.
- Phrodo_00 8y ago> the idea of the '..' directory is as legacy as the headphone jack so... not at all? I like this approach from Fucshia, Makes me remember dumb sploits in php code. You can take the commandline from my cold, dead hands.
- paulddraper 8y agoYeah, that analogy was bizarre.
- Meph504 8y agoI think you vastly under estimate the usage of command lines by developers. Not to mention opts and admins. I don't think there is a week that has passed in the last 10 years that I haven't used the command line for something. To the point of the article, it sounds like the client will handle the work the server once did in parsing the navigation and path commands. Though the lack of symlinks sounds like it would be the a more painful loss than ".." Both of these would likely require many *nix utils to be changed to be compatible.
- JoeAltmaier 8y agoI'm not so sure. I can go a week and not use one. And lately its not been a win - the shell didn't get me anything.
- ashelmire 8y agoA week! If I go an hour without using the command line, then it's because I'm not actually coding.
- BenjiWiebe 8y agoI actually code in the command line, usually. Vim.
- paulddraper 8y agoTerminal, not command line.
- meschi 8y agoTerminal emulator, not Terminal.
- paulddraper 8y agoWhat does it matter if it is emulated or real?
- yashap 8y agoUh what? That’s maybe true with extremely junior devs, or in Windows shops, but most devs I know use the command line very heavily.
- androidgirl 8y agoI cant imagine development without my shell at this point. Even if I didn't use vim+tmux, so much other "stuff" needs the terminal. Compiling, profiling, testing, searching, moving files around, ssh/rsync and so on. Sure, IDEs have most of this stuff, but they're not always as user friendly as cli tools, at least once you're acquainted with the later.
- the_jeremy 8y agoI've only worked at 2 companies, but every developer I've worked with at both used the shell at least weekly.