5 ms·

It's one thing for engineers to "be the HR department" at small companies. They are willing to let things slide because they know the candidate, especially afte

It's one thing for engineers to "be the HR department" at small companies. They are willing to let things slide because they know the candidate, especially after interviewing them, that they can fill in the knowledge gaps (well I don't know about the willing to move to china bit). Contrast that with a large company with a specific HR department that is in charge of taking a job requirement sheet and finding and filtering candidates. These people have no idea what any of these technologies are, so for them it's a liability on their ass if they let people through that don't satisfy the "requirements". Managers, when you write up "requirements" and that is being sent to an HR department, keep in mind you might want to move some of those to a "nice to have" category. That being said, there ARE competent, non-technical HR departments that do understand technical hiring. Edit: Ohh... I wanted to add too, it's nice being in a startup where you really don't just "leave it up for a year". In a startup each and every candidate is literally needed when it's posted. It's kinda crazy and shows just how much larger companies hire just to hire if they can just sit on positions for a long time. Are they really "needed" if the position can go unfilled for an entire year?

paulie_a 8y ago
I disagree about startups not leaving it up for a year. I have seen plenty that do exactly that. I don't know what the motivation is but I'm guessing they just want to fish for their pipeline. And they don't need someone next week.
mcv 8y ago
If HR has no idea what the job means, they also shouldn't be the one selecting candidates and conducting interviews.
- seanmcdirmid 8y ago
  HR doesn’t really conduct interviews beyond maybe a quick high level screen. They select candidates, but also only as a high level screen, it’s up to the engineering team to screen more deeply and do interviews.
  - wtracy 8y ago
    Of all places, Facebook had a pretty clearly non-technical person screen me over the phone. Apparently they gave her a list of questions and answers. The questions were structured so that none of the answers were open-ended. ("What is the OSI seven layer model? What is a Unix signal?") So, yeah, I'm not sure I would call it a real interview, but sometimes HR does get called upon to screen candidates.
    - tracker1 8y ago
      I talked to a person in a similar situation... ironically some of the questions could have multiple answers. Pre ES5 and Post ES5 JS has changed a lot of the "rules". Specifically to scope/closures. But yeah, for the most part, those kinds of questions help. It does depend on what your needs are.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      I’ve been screened by a Facebook recruiter without that experience. Sounds absolutely dreadful.
    - pmiller2 8y ago
      I had a very similar experience with LinkedIn a couple years ago.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - lawnchair_larry 8y ago
      This is different. The engineering team provided those questions so that the recruiters stop wasting their time on people who have no chance at all. They're just implementing the filter. HR themselves did not come up with any of them, and don't make the decisions. Also, recruiting and HR are not quite the same function.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
gamblor956 8y ago
At my company if a candidate doesn't check all the reqs but comes close, HR shows the resume to the relevant department and asks them how important the missing boxes are. We're willing to train employees, so we usually at least give the candidate an interview.
ahartman00 8y ago
"keep in mind you might want to move some of those to a "nice to have" category" I would add be more general if possible. Someone with 5 years of postgres sql will pick up sql server pretty quickly. So maybe just: Relational Database experience. Somebody who has used 5 different ui frameworks will pick up the whichever you use pretty quickly. So perhaps: Web UI development. Etc.
0xffff2 8y ago
I've never worked for a startup, but when my company leaves a long-standing position open, it usually means that there's some work sitting on the back burner that isn't important enough to make it on to an existing employee's task list. Even in my small group, there's plenty of work that would be "nice to have", but isn't mission critical. If we find the right person to do some of that work, we will hire them on a short-term contract to do the work. If we don't find the right person, one of us will get to it eventually. I have a feeling this isn't any different at a startup.
- pishpash 8y ago
  No, startups just never get to the "nice to have".
chrisbennet 8y ago
If I see a position that has been open for longer than a month, I assume they are not serious about filling it. Either they aren't really hiring or they don't want to pay the market rate.
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Most of the job positions all of FAANG have posted have been open for months, some for over a year. They are really hiring and have no problem paying market rate. That's a counterexample.
  - indigochill 8y ago
    If a company is really hiring and paying market rate, what's the situation leading to positions open for over a year? Unicorn-hunting? I've been part of a hiring process that took a couple months (and by the end had management breathing down our necks to just hire -someone-), but that was because we were hiring into an out-of-the-way location that generally lacked the skills locally that we were looking for. Neither of which would apply to FAANG.
    - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
      They are just being picky, and can afford to be picky. I’ve heard FAANG interview pass rates are pretty low, frustrating their recruiters to no end :).
    - zid3nt 8y ago
      Maybe they're willing to hire in depth for those particular positions?
      - ido 8y ago
        The company I work at has an ad for "Senior Full-Stack Developer" and if 5 amazing candidates show up they'll probably hire all of them (or if just 1 shows up and gets hired the ad will remain online).
    - 8y ago
pkaye 8y ago
My experience has been that HR just passes the resumes to all the hiring managers who make the call to proceed. There are some more competent HR recruiters that could also prioritize candidates that are a better fit to the top of the pile.
ska 8y ago
Sometimes in a startup the posting stays up for a year because you can't identify and successfully hire a good candidate. I'm thinking of more niche roles, sure, but I've seen it happen multiple times.

paulie_a 8y ago

I disagree about startups not leaving it up for a year. I have seen plenty that do exactly that. I don't know what the motivation is but I'm guessing they just want to fish for their pipeline. And they don't need someone next week.

mcv 8y ago

If HR has no idea what the job means, they also shouldn't be the one selecting candidates and conducting interviews.

seanmcdirmid 8y ago
HR doesn’t really conduct interviews beyond maybe a quick high level screen. They select candidates, but also only as a high level screen, it’s up to the engineering team to screen more deeply and do interviews.
- wtracy 8y ago
  Of all places, Facebook had a pretty clearly non-technical person screen me over the phone. Apparently they gave her a list of questions and answers. The questions were structured so that none of the answers were open-ended. ("What is the OSI seven layer model? What is a Unix signal?") So, yeah, I'm not sure I would call it a real interview, but sometimes HR does get called upon to screen candidates.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    I talked to a person in a similar situation... ironically some of the questions could have multiple answers. Pre ES5 and Post ES5 JS has changed a lot of the "rules". Specifically to scope/closures. But yeah, for the most part, those kinds of questions help. It does depend on what your needs are.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    I’ve been screened by a Facebook recruiter without that experience. Sounds absolutely dreadful.
  - pmiller2 8y ago
    I had a very similar experience with LinkedIn a couple years ago.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - lawnchair_larry 8y ago
    This is different. The engineering team provided those questions so that the recruiters stop wasting their time on people who have no chance at all. They're just implementing the filter. HR themselves did not come up with any of them, and don't make the decisions. Also, recruiting and HR are not quite the same function.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

gamblor956 8y ago

At my company if a candidate doesn't check all the reqs but comes close, HR shows the resume to the relevant department and asks them how important the missing boxes are. We're willing to train employees, so we usually at least give the candidate an interview.

ahartman00 8y ago

"keep in mind you might want to move some of those to a "nice to have" category" I would add be more general if possible. Someone with 5 years of postgres sql will pick up sql server pretty quickly. So maybe just: Relational Database experience. Somebody who has used 5 different ui frameworks will pick up the whichever you use pretty quickly. So perhaps: Web UI development. Etc.

0xffff2 8y ago

I've never worked for a startup, but when my company leaves a long-standing position open, it usually means that there's some work sitting on the back burner that isn't important enough to make it on to an existing employee's task list. Even in my small group, there's plenty of work that would be "nice to have", but isn't mission critical. If we find the right person to do some of that work, we will hire them on a short-term contract to do the work. If we don't find the right person, one of us will get to it eventually. I have a feeling this isn't any different at a startup.

pishpash 8y ago
No, startups just never get to the "nice to have".

chrisbennet 8y ago

If I see a position that has been open for longer than a month, I assume they are not serious about filling it. Either they aren't really hiring or they don't want to pay the market rate.

scarejunba 8y ago
Most of the job positions all of FAANG have posted have been open for months, some for over a year. They are really hiring and have no problem paying market rate. That's a counterexample.
- indigochill 8y ago
  If a company is really hiring and paying market rate, what's the situation leading to positions open for over a year? Unicorn-hunting? I've been part of a hiring process that took a couple months (and by the end had management breathing down our necks to just hire -someone-), but that was because we were hiring into an out-of-the-way location that generally lacked the skills locally that we were looking for. Neither of which would apply to FAANG.
  - seanmcdirmid 8y ago
    They are just being picky, and can afford to be picky. I’ve heard FAANG interview pass rates are pretty low, frustrating their recruiters to no end :).
  - zid3nt 8y ago
    Maybe they're willing to hire in depth for those particular positions?
    - ido 8y ago
      The company I work at has an ad for "Senior Full-Stack Developer" and if 5 amazing candidates show up they'll probably hire all of them (or if just 1 shows up and gets hired the ad will remain online).
  - 8y ago

pkaye 8y ago

My experience has been that HR just passes the resumes to all the hiring managers who make the call to proceed. There are some more competent HR recruiters that could also prioritize candidates that are a better fit to the top of the pile.

ska 8y ago

Sometimes in a startup the posting stays up for a year because you can't identify and successfully hire a good candidate. I'm thinking of more niche roles, sure, but I've seen it happen multiple times.