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One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's don

One thing that's becoming near-impossible is finding places to drink (as in pubs or bars) without piped music. This contributes significantly to noise. It's done of course so that we shout ourselves hoarse trying to have a conversation, so we buy more drinks to lubricate our throat, but even formerly quiet pubs near me have started doing it.

philpem 8y ago
I help organise events and it's been our biggest complaint for some venues: that as the afternoon progresses, the music gets so loud it's impossible to hold a conversation. We pass the complaints along, but the response is usually "Corporate insists we do this, we hate it too, apparently it makes people buy more drinks". In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away.
- briandear 8y ago
  > In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away It would really depend on the venue, but I managed and worked in a few bars and clubs in the mid 2000s and the daytime crowd preferred more quiet, but then in the evening, if the music was soft, there was a perception that the bar was “dead” or had fewer people tha. It actually did. A loud bar with few people gets more interest from the potential patrons because it’s perceived as more lively and crowded than it may actually be. Then it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and actually becomes more lively and crowded. When your business is based on customer volume, quiet and contemplative is a fast way to go out of business. Exceptions are high end, romantic martini bars selling $18 drinks or scotch bars selling high end spirits to a discerning clientele. For your average brew-pub or standard “bar,” silence equals death. You can see this anywhere there is a strip of bars and clubs, the quiet places are the ones not selling as much. Most people go to bars at night for the purpose of socializing and having fun. Most bar patrons don’t associate “fun” with quiet. Anyone that has worked in the bar business knows that you make more money with loud than you do with quiet — with some exceptions of course. Restaurants on the other hand, in my experience, quiet does better for the restaurants that have been around awhile, while loud and lively tends to prop up the newer places because the “energy” reinforces the “hype” around perceived popularity.
pbhjpbhj 8y ago
I think the mechanism is supposed to be that you talk less, which in turn means you drink more. Places serving food have piped music so you finish your meal more quickly so they sell more covers; you're unlikely to sit around chatting afterwards with music playing. They also clear plates at the earliest chance providing an enhanced social pressure to finish.
- fredley 8y ago
  My partner and I are 'mystery shoppers' for restaurants. We have our bill covered plus a bit extra on top (but have to fill out hefty, detailed questionnaires afterwards). One of the things there's always a whole section on is timing: every single interaction has a time-window in which it must occur. You must be greeted within (t1), you must be seated within (t2). Plates must be cleared within (t3), you must have a 'table touch' (is everything ok with your food?) within (t4), etc. Some discrete note-taking is often needed (descriptions of all serving staff are required too). We're pretty good at it by now, but have been 'rumbled' once. You can tell when it happens—suddenly you start getting offered the opportunity to try all the different wines they have, for free, given free desserts. Of course it doesn't matter as the meal is paid for, and often slows down the service!
  - mnw21cam 8y ago
    I personally hate it when a waiter comes up, interrupts my meal, and asks if everything is OK with my food. Are you seriously saying restaurants are being encouraged to do this?
    - mikewhy 8y ago
      Yes, it's important to the restaurant to know if your meal is okay while there's still a chance to do something about it. It's also a chance to ask for anything else without a restaurant of people flagging down the wait staff.
      - umanwizard 8y ago
dingaling 8y ago
In the UK my partner and I have started going to Wetherspoons pubs. They're reviled in middle-class circles as a cheap, chavvy chain that buys-out traditional pubs but they're clean, friendly and QUIET.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  Ugh, they're usually not clean or friendly, the staff are also usually incompetent and slow. I have been in them a lot over the years for various reasons and my best description of weatherspoons would be a bit shit. That they don't buy a music license is a cost saving measure. They're ok when they first open, but after a year or two get a bit of a run down feeling. I also walk past one of my local ones occasionally at 9:30 in the morning, there's always a few old men already drinking pints of lager in there, it's sad.
  - fredley 8y ago
    Old men drinking pints of lager in Spoons early in the morning is a national problem. It's basically treated as cheap daycare for elder relatives by some families - drop dad off with £20 first thing in the morning and pick him up at closing time. The worst part by far is how they never sit together, they all sit individually alone.
  - aembleton 8y ago
    That's a shame, I find the majority of them vary between OK and Excellent. The only ones I consider shit are Manchester Piccadilly, Monument in London, one in Carlisle and another in Hull. There are also some really excellent ones such as one I found near the south downs. Can't exactly remember where but it had two roaring log fires in it. Great Malvern one is nearly as good.
- fredley 8y ago
  I'm familiar with Spoons, the main problem is that they have TV's visible from anywhere you're sitting (at least in the ones near me) that are incredibly distracting.
- jlokier 8y ago
blhack 8y ago
Even worse is television in restaurants. There is this GREAT restaurant with near me with a little side room that has a really cozy fireplace in it (VERY rare for Phoenix). The lighting for the room, however, has been destroyed by the TV. Also who on earth wants to watch ads while they are eating dinner? It's mind boggling because the place is also somewhat high end.
- Ancalagon 8y ago
  Where is this? Im in Phoenix as well and would like to check it out!
  - blhack 8y ago
    Dick's hideaway on 16th street and Bethany Home. Some of the best food I've ever had! Really lovely place but...just why on earth they have TVs in there? It just doesn't fit at all with the rest of the fantastic ambiance.
    - brokenmachine 8y ago
      You could ask if they'll turn it off.
4ad 8y ago
A few years back, here in Vienna bars didn't turn on TVs for a whole year (there was a notice on the TVs about how they can't turn them on for some reason, and to complain to $WHOEVER, not sure of the details). It was magnificent. Even better, one pub didn't have music at all. It was the best pub in town, and that's not just my opinion because it was one of the busiest pubs. I wish it were like that again.

philpem 8y ago

I help organise events and it's been our biggest complaint for some venues: that as the afternoon progresses, the music gets so loud it's impossible to hold a conversation. We pass the complaints along, but the response is usually "Corporate insists we do this, we hate it too, apparently it makes people buy more drinks". In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away.

briandear 8y ago
> In practice, at least from the data I've gathered, it drives people away It would really depend on the venue, but I managed and worked in a few bars and clubs in the mid 2000s and the daytime crowd preferred more quiet, but then in the evening, if the music was soft, there was a perception that the bar was “dead” or had fewer people tha. It actually did. A loud bar with few people gets more interest from the potential patrons because it’s perceived as more lively and crowded than it may actually be. Then it creates a self-fulfilling prophecy and actually becomes more lively and crowded. When your business is based on customer volume, quiet and contemplative is a fast way to go out of business. Exceptions are high end, romantic martini bars selling $18 drinks or scotch bars selling high end spirits to a discerning clientele. For your average brew-pub or standard “bar,” silence equals death. You can see this anywhere there is a strip of bars and clubs, the quiet places are the ones not selling as much. Most people go to bars at night for the purpose of socializing and having fun. Most bar patrons don’t associate “fun” with quiet. Anyone that has worked in the bar business knows that you make more money with loud than you do with quiet — with some exceptions of course. Restaurants on the other hand, in my experience, quiet does better for the restaurants that have been around awhile, while loud and lively tends to prop up the newer places because the “energy” reinforces the “hype” around perceived popularity.

pbhjpbhj 8y ago

I think the mechanism is supposed to be that you talk less, which in turn means you drink more. Places serving food have piped music so you finish your meal more quickly so they sell more covers; you're unlikely to sit around chatting afterwards with music playing. They also clear plates at the earliest chance providing an enhanced social pressure to finish.

fredley 8y ago
My partner and I are 'mystery shoppers' for restaurants. We have our bill covered plus a bit extra on top (but have to fill out hefty, detailed questionnaires afterwards). One of the things there's always a whole section on is timing: every single interaction has a time-window in which it must occur. You must be greeted within (t1), you must be seated within (t2). Plates must be cleared within (t3), you must have a 'table touch' (is everything ok with your food?) within (t4), etc. Some discrete note-taking is often needed (descriptions of all serving staff are required too). We're pretty good at it by now, but have been 'rumbled' once. You can tell when it happens—suddenly you start getting offered the opportunity to try all the different wines they have, for free, given free desserts. Of course it doesn't matter as the meal is paid for, and often slows down the service!
- mnw21cam 8y ago
  I personally hate it when a waiter comes up, interrupts my meal, and asks if everything is OK with my food. Are you seriously saying restaurants are being encouraged to do this?
  - mikewhy 8y ago
    Yes, it's important to the restaurant to know if your meal is okay while there's still a chance to do something about it. It's also a chance to ask for anything else without a restaurant of people flagging down the wait staff.
    - umanwizard 8y ago

dingaling 8y ago

In the UK my partner and I have started going to Wetherspoons pubs. They're reviled in middle-class circles as a cheap, chavvy chain that buys-out traditional pubs but they're clean, friendly and QUIET.

mattmanser 8y ago
Ugh, they're usually not clean or friendly, the staff are also usually incompetent and slow. I have been in them a lot over the years for various reasons and my best description of weatherspoons would be a bit shit. That they don't buy a music license is a cost saving measure. They're ok when they first open, but after a year or two get a bit of a run down feeling. I also walk past one of my local ones occasionally at 9:30 in the morning, there's always a few old men already drinking pints of lager in there, it's sad.
- fredley 8y ago
  Old men drinking pints of lager in Spoons early in the morning is a national problem. It's basically treated as cheap daycare for elder relatives by some families - drop dad off with £20 first thing in the morning and pick him up at closing time. The worst part by far is how they never sit together, they all sit individually alone.
- aembleton 8y ago
  That's a shame, I find the majority of them vary between OK and Excellent. The only ones I consider shit are Manchester Piccadilly, Monument in London, one in Carlisle and another in Hull. There are also some really excellent ones such as one I found near the south downs. Can't exactly remember where but it had two roaring log fires in it. Great Malvern one is nearly as good.
fredley 8y ago
I'm familiar with Spoons, the main problem is that they have TV's visible from anywhere you're sitting (at least in the ones near me) that are incredibly distracting.
jlokier 8y ago

blhack 8y ago

Even worse is television in restaurants. There is this GREAT restaurant with near me with a little side room that has a really cozy fireplace in it (VERY rare for Phoenix). The lighting for the room, however, has been destroyed by the TV. Also who on earth wants to watch ads while they are eating dinner? It's mind boggling because the place is also somewhat high end.

Ancalagon 8y ago
Where is this? Im in Phoenix as well and would like to check it out!
- blhack 8y ago
  Dick's hideaway on 16th street and Bethany Home. Some of the best food I've ever had! Really lovely place but...just why on earth they have TVs in there? It just doesn't fit at all with the rest of the fantastic ambiance.
  - brokenmachine 8y ago
    You could ask if they'll turn it off.

4ad 8y ago

A few years back, here in Vienna bars didn't turn on TVs for a whole year (there was a notice on the TVs about how they can't turn them on for some reason, and to complain to $WHOEVER, not sure of the details). It was magnificent. Even better, one pub didn't have music at all. It was the best pub in town, and that's not just my opinion because it was one of the busiest pubs. I wish it were like that again.