4 ms·

From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usab

by LeonM 8y ago

From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. I prefer the method of Samsung in this case, they clearly state for the monthly update that it is mostly a security update. Where Apple seems to apply marketing by promising 'the best experience yet' and shiny new features with each major version bump. edit: typo

coldtea 8y ago
>From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. A lot of users? iOS has the fastest and widest adoption rate for new releases of any mobile or not OS. Android specifically used to have awful fragmentation issues and phones never updated by the vendor 3 and 4 releases behind. APPLE IOS 12 HAS SEEN THE FASTEST ADOPTION RATE, RUNNING ON 50% OF IPHONES AND IPADS (Oct 12) https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-ios-12-has-seen-the-fastest-adoption-rate-running-on-50-of-iphones-and-ipads-5366251.html https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-ios-12-ha... iOS 11 is now installed on 81% of Apple’s over a billion active iPhone, iPad and iPod touch devices in the wild, up from the 76% adoption rate reported on April 25. By contrast, Android Oreo versions powered less than six percent of active Android-driven smartphones and tablets that had been accessing Google’s Play Store during a seven-day period ending on May 7, 2018. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/06/05/ios-11-adoption-rate-81-percent/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/06/05/ios-11-adoption-rat...
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  50% is "a lot of users". Ranting about Android doesn't change that.
  - sjwright 8y ago
    His ranting style is unhelpful but the underlying point is sound—Apple device owners update the operating software at a dramatically higher rate and frequency than any other significant competitor platform. If there is a contingent of iOS device users “conditioned” to avoid upgrades, it would be impossible to prove this contingent exists statistically. Frequent vocal complainers on internet forums probably only account for less than 0.01% of their installed base.
    - zrobotics 8y ago
      Does that really mean anything, though? I'm sure win10 users update at a higher rate than that, but that doesn't mean that people are clamoring for Microsoft's newest update.
      - sjwright 8y ago
        The Windows ecosystem has a far higher percentage of users running older versions—e.g. 8.1, 7, 2012 R2.
  - ololobus 8y ago
    JFYI 50% is an adoption achieved in only 23 days after iOS 12 release [1] "Apple’s latest mobile OS hitting 50 percent adoption across eligible devices in 23 days (via VentureBeat). For comparison, iOS 11, released on September 19th, 2017, didn’t hit 52 percent adoption until November 6th of that year, taking 48 days, or over twice as long as it took iOS 12 to hit its own 50 percent mark." So now it is probably higher, though I didn't find any fresh stats. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17965302/ios-12-install-adoption-progress-ios11 https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17965302/ios-12-install-...
  - coldtea 8y ago
    50% in a couple weeks after the release. Android was 6% after much much longer.
- Aeolun 8y ago
  I mean, it’s much easier to update if you own the entire platform
  - scarface74 8y ago
    I never had a problem updating Windows PCs not made by Microsoft. In fact, I was able to just stick a Windows 7 disk in my old 2006 Core Duo Mac Mini and “upgrade” it after Apple abandoned it.
- superflyguy 8y ago
  Fragmentation! Lol! The only people who seem to care about "Android fragmentation" are lonely Apple fanbois. It makes no difference to Android users as the version of Android you run and the apps you can install/websites you browse are entirely unconnected.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >The only people who seem to care about "Android fragmentation" are lonely Apple fanbois. First, "fanbois" is something 15-year olds emotionally invested into "my side is better" would use. Just state what you want to state, and don't assume some magical group of mindless drones or paid shills behind statements that point to deficiencies in a platform. In general, drop "lol", "lonely fanbois" etc from your vocabulary if you want your statements to be taken seriously. >It makes no difference to Android users as the version of Android you run and the apps you can install/websites you browse are entirely unconnected. Tons of Android developers have been lamenting fragmentation. It's about having a coherent platform to be able to know what features to count on, and not to have to support several older versions of the OS because most of the buyers are still using it. Also tons of Android uses have lamented mobile vendors not providing updates for their older models. https://insights.dice.com/2017/11/16/android-fragmentation-real-problem/ https://insights.dice.com/2017/11/16/android-fragmentation-r... https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-android-fragmentation-and-can-google-ever-fix-it/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-android-fragmen... https://hackernoon.com/android-fragmentation-makes-every-android-device-worse-5b4be1b7c9b2 https://hackernoon.com/android-fragmentation-makes-every-and...
    - superflyguy 8y ago
      "In general, drop "lol", "lonely fanbois" etc from your vocabulary if you want your statements to be taken seriously." Thanks for the advice but I appear to be immune to this "social networks and digital media causes depression" issue, as I couldn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about me.
- LocalH 8y ago
  Part of the reason Apple has such high update numbers is due to the dark pattern of presenting "enter your passcode to update tonight" (when you select "later" instead of "install now" on an update alert) in the exact same style as the normal passcode entry screen. I'm sure a significant number of people have inadvertently updated their device through that method.
pizza234 8y ago
Anecdotally speaking, Android, particularly from version 8, started pushing system breaking changes/bugs in the supposedly security-oriented monthly upgrades (have a look at how many users found their phone not to fire alarms anymore after a minor Oreo upgrade...), so I think this is a market-wide tendency.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
> From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. Sure it is, but this is what you get for not separating security and feature updates. I tend to avoid updating applications (both on desktop and mobile) for that very reason (though I do update the OS). If each vaccination you took came with mandatory remodeling of your house, directed by whims of some "artists", you'd see much more antivaxxers too. > I prefer the method of Samsung in this case, they clearly state for the monthly update that it is mostly a security update. I have an S7 and my experience doesn't confirm this, though I don't know whether it's Samsung's fault or operator's (Orange). Either way, I find most updates I get to be indistinguishable by their description. I'm not worried though, because I haven't caught any of them installing bloatware. That said, from what I understand, they're still linear - you're expected to apply one patch after another. I see no way of opting out from feature updates, and sticking only to security ones. Anyway; why oh why it's so hard to include a changelog in an update?
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  > If each vaccination you took came with mandatory remodeling of your house, directed by whims of some "artists", you'd see much more antivaxxers too. I cannot concur strongly enough. (And I will likely steal this lovely analogy in the future!) Security is important, and installing security patches is a good practice. But companies use this as an excuse to force the adoption of all sorts of other crap. I'm not willing to put up with that. I understand that back-porting patches requires some amount of additional effort. But asking gigantic tech companies to support major releases for a few years at minimum should not be too much to ask. In this regard, Microsoft and Windows 10 are by far the worst offenders. Microsoft develops and releases security-only patches for 1607 and will continue to do so until 2026, but these patches are only available to enterprises. Normal consumers need to either use Microsoft's problem-ridden biannual updates, or be insecure. Actions speak louder than words. If Microsoft actually held security in such a high regard, they wouldn't hold security patches hostage in order to push other corporate interests. I thus don't feel the least bit of guilt about opting out of MS's entire update process.

by LeonM 8y ago

coldtea 8y ago

>From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. A lot of users? iOS has the fastest and widest adoption rate for new releases of any mobile or not OS. Android specifically used to have awful fragmentation issues and phones never updated by the vendor 3 and 4 releases behind. APPLE IOS 12 HAS SEEN THE FASTEST ADOPTION RATE, RUNNING ON 50% OF IPHONES AND IPADS (Oct 12) https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-ios-12-has-seen-the-fastest-adoption-rate-running-on-50-of-iphones-and-ipads-5366251.html https://www.firstpost.com/tech/news-analysis/apple-ios-12-ha... iOS 11 is now installed on 81% of Apple’s over a billion active iPhone, iPad and iPod touch devices in the wild, up from the 76% adoption rate reported on April 25. By contrast, Android Oreo versions powered less than six percent of active Android-driven smartphones and tablets that had been accessing Google’s Play Store during a seven-day period ending on May 7, 2018. https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/06/05/ios-11-adoption-rate-81-percent/ https://www.idownloadblog.com/2018/06/05/ios-11-adoption-rat...

SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
50% is "a lot of users". Ranting about Android doesn't change that.
- sjwright 8y ago
  His ranting style is unhelpful but the underlying point is sound—Apple device owners update the operating software at a dramatically higher rate and frequency than any other significant competitor platform. If there is a contingent of iOS device users “conditioned” to avoid upgrades, it would be impossible to prove this contingent exists statistically. Frequent vocal complainers on internet forums probably only account for less than 0.01% of their installed base.
  - zrobotics 8y ago
    Does that really mean anything, though? I'm sure win10 users update at a higher rate than that, but that doesn't mean that people are clamoring for Microsoft's newest update.
    - sjwright 8y ago
      The Windows ecosystem has a far higher percentage of users running older versions—e.g. 8.1, 7, 2012 R2.
- ololobus 8y ago
  JFYI 50% is an adoption achieved in only 23 days after iOS 12 release [1] "Apple’s latest mobile OS hitting 50 percent adoption across eligible devices in 23 days (via VentureBeat). For comparison, iOS 11, released on September 19th, 2017, didn’t hit 52 percent adoption until November 6th of that year, taking 48 days, or over twice as long as it took iOS 12 to hit its own 50 percent mark." So now it is probably higher, though I didn't find any fresh stats. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17965302/ios-12-install-adoption-progress-ios11 https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/11/17965302/ios-12-install-...
- coldtea 8y ago
  50% in a couple weeks after the release. Android was 6% after much much longer.
Aeolun 8y ago
I mean, it’s much easier to update if you own the entire platform
- scarface74 8y ago
  I never had a problem updating Windows PCs not made by Microsoft. In fact, I was able to just stick a Windows 7 disk in my old 2006 Core Duo Mac Mini and “upgrade” it after Apple abandoned it.
superflyguy 8y ago
Fragmentation! Lol! The only people who seem to care about "Android fragmentation" are lonely Apple fanbois. It makes no difference to Android users as the version of Android you run and the apps you can install/websites you browse are entirely unconnected.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >The only people who seem to care about "Android fragmentation" are lonely Apple fanbois. First, "fanbois" is something 15-year olds emotionally invested into "my side is better" would use. Just state what you want to state, and don't assume some magical group of mindless drones or paid shills behind statements that point to deficiencies in a platform. In general, drop "lol", "lonely fanbois" etc from your vocabulary if you want your statements to be taken seriously. >It makes no difference to Android users as the version of Android you run and the apps you can install/websites you browse are entirely unconnected. Tons of Android developers have been lamenting fragmentation. It's about having a coherent platform to be able to know what features to count on, and not to have to support several older versions of the OS because most of the buyers are still using it. Also tons of Android uses have lamented mobile vendors not providing updates for their older models. https://insights.dice.com/2017/11/16/android-fragmentation-real-problem/ https://insights.dice.com/2017/11/16/android-fragmentation-r... https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-android-fragmentation-and-can-google-ever-fix-it/ https://www.digitaltrends.com/mobile/what-is-android-fragmen... https://hackernoon.com/android-fragmentation-makes-every-android-device-worse-5b4be1b7c9b2 https://hackernoon.com/android-fragmentation-makes-every-and...
  - superflyguy 8y ago
    "In general, drop "lol", "lonely fanbois" etc from your vocabulary if you want your statements to be taken seriously." Thanks for the advice but I appear to be immune to this "social networks and digital media causes depression" issue, as I couldn't give a fuck what anyone thinks about me.
LocalH 8y ago
Part of the reason Apple has such high update numbers is due to the dark pattern of presenting "enter your passcode to update tonight" (when you select "later" instead of "install now" on an update alert) in the exact same style as the normal passcode entry screen. I'm sure a significant number of people have inadvertently updated their device through that method.

pizza234 8y ago

Anecdotally speaking, Android, particularly from version 8, started pushing system breaking changes/bugs in the supposedly security-oriented monthly upgrades (have a look at how many users found their phone not to fire alarms anymore after a minor Oreo upgrade...), so I think this is a market-wide tendency.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

> From a security point of view, it's really worrying that a lot of users refuse to upgrade software because of the track record of Apple making devices less usable with every upgrade. Sure it is, but this is what you get for not separating security and feature updates. I tend to avoid updating applications (both on desktop and mobile) for that very reason (though I do update the OS). If each vaccination you took came with mandatory remodeling of your house, directed by whims of some "artists", you'd see much more antivaxxers too. > I prefer the method of Samsung in this case, they clearly state for the monthly update that it is mostly a security update. I have an S7 and my experience doesn't confirm this, though I don't know whether it's Samsung's fault or operator's (Orange). Either way, I find most updates I get to be indistinguishable by their description. I'm not worried though, because I haven't caught any of them installing bloatware. That said, from what I understand, they're still linear - you're expected to apply one patch after another. I see no way of opting out from feature updates, and sticking only to security ones. Anyway; why oh why it's so hard to include a changelog in an update?

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
> If each vaccination you took came with mandatory remodeling of your house, directed by whims of some "artists", you'd see much more antivaxxers too. I cannot concur strongly enough. (And I will likely steal this lovely analogy in the future!) Security is important, and installing security patches is a good practice. But companies use this as an excuse to force the adoption of all sorts of other crap. I'm not willing to put up with that. I understand that back-porting patches requires some amount of additional effort. But asking gigantic tech companies to support major releases for a few years at minimum should not be too much to ask. In this regard, Microsoft and Windows 10 are by far the worst offenders. Microsoft develops and releases security-only patches for 1607 and will continue to do so until 2026, but these patches are only available to enterprises. Normal consumers need to either use Microsoft's problem-ridden biannual updates, or be insecure. Actions speak louder than words. If Microsoft actually held security in such a high regard, they wouldn't hold security patches hostage in order to push other corporate interests. I thus don't feel the least bit of guilt about opting out of MS's entire update process.