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I am quite convinced it would be possible to build a pleasantly-looking development of $25,000 sale-value housing at 50 or 70 miles away from the urbanized area

I am quite convinced it would be possible to build a pleasantly-looking development of $25,000 sale-value housing at 50 or 70 miles away from the urbanized area and connect it with a fast transit rail to the main urbanization. Empty land should be cheap. Buyers should be plentiful. The reason why this does not happen, is because the bureaucracy prevents it. There seems to be a strong political necessity to make accommodation unaffordable. It is a deliberate policy, of which homelessness is just an unimportant byproduct. It is your risk and fear of becoming homeless that keeps the system afloat. These dangers enslave you to your employer and to the banksters. Be a good slave!

walrus01 8y ago
$25,000 can EASILY be spent, and triple that, just on getting well water, septic and electrical services to a rural property. I could buy 20 acres in Okanogan county WA right now for $18,000 but it'll be at the end of a dirt road, with no sewer, no water, and looking at $30k to extend grid electrical to it (or build a $20k off-grid photovoltaic system). I'm guessing from your comment that you've never actually done the budget on what it costs to turn "cheap" land into somewhere you can build a nice residence.
- aftbit 8y ago
  How do you find cheap land like this? I would love to own 20 unimproved acres in rural Washington.
  - walrus01 8y ago
    Look on Zillow, in really small places like Omak you may also need to telephone real estate agents. The way they do business there is like 15 years ago. Edit: randomly chosen example, I have nothing to do with the seller here: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2089463438_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2089463438_zpid/
  - mikestew 8y ago
    Umm, Zillow with the right filters. All the 20 acre plots you want for $20K. You better have a vehicle with some ground clearance.
    - walrus01 8y ago
      And in many places consider that a road which is passable by a light duty 4x4 or pickup in summer, due to snow, may be snowmobile or snow cat access only in winter. Unless you pave the access road and have it plowed.
- joe_the_user 8y ago
  That is certainly the budget as things are done now. It seems possible you could create a process to do this level of development on an industrial scale and get costs down to the level mentioned.
- syedkarim 8y ago
  Just built a 1680 square foot house on agricultural land. Septic was $18,000. Water well was $10,000. Electric company charged $3000 to bring a line out 400 feet from the road. Gas line cost even more to bring out.
- adrianmonk 8y ago
  Presumably they're talking about a transit-oriented housing subdivision with hundreds of houses all centered around a train station. With that sort of arrangement, you'd have economies of scale on the utility hookups. But other problems remain, like getting the train service.
wonderwonder 8y ago
I think if this was the case, wealthier people would swoop in and buy them up by the dozen, then rent them out for triple their mortgage. They would all be sold in bulk before the builder broke ground. Capitalism is very kind to those who already have capital.
gowld 8y ago
You describe the history of American suburban sprawl, ignored the fact that it's wholly unsistainable (as documented in may articles posted here, suburbs go bankrupt in 50-100 years when the maintenance bills and bond payments come due, unless they can force cities to subsidize them), and ignored the fact that is already exists all over the nation.
jiveturkey 8y ago
others have destroyed your flight of fancy by detailing how expensive it is to drill a well, etc, but let me add one. the cost of commuter rail service, never mind anything approaching high speed, utterly destroys your argument. it cannot be done.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  Maybe it can't be done in the US, for various cultural, bureaucratic, and legal reasons, but it has been done successfully in other parts of the world. http://ontheworldmap.com/japan/city/tokyo/tokyo-rail-map.jpg http://ontheworldmap.com/japan/city/tokyo/tokyo-rail-map.jpg
SomewhatLikely 8y ago
In most cities, the outlying communities already exist. It's the transportation that's the hard part.
TheCoelacanth 8y ago
Assuming a below average construction cost of $100 per square foot, $25k would let you build 250 square feet of housing. Not many people would be happy with that amount of space, and that doesn't leave any money for land acquisition, constructing any of the other infrastructure needed to support the house, or constructing the rail transportation.

walrus01 8y ago

$25,000 can EASILY be spent, and triple that, just on getting well water, septic and electrical services to a rural property. I could buy 20 acres in Okanogan county WA right now for $18,000 but it'll be at the end of a dirt road, with no sewer, no water, and looking at $30k to extend grid electrical to it (or build a $20k off-grid photovoltaic system). I'm guessing from your comment that you've never actually done the budget on what it costs to turn "cheap" land into somewhere you can build a nice residence.

aftbit 8y ago
How do you find cheap land like this? I would love to own 20 unimproved acres in rural Washington.
- walrus01 8y ago
  Look on Zillow, in really small places like Omak you may also need to telephone real estate agents. The way they do business there is like 15 years ago. Edit: randomly chosen example, I have nothing to do with the seller here: https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2089463438_zpid/ https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2089463438_zpid/
- mikestew 8y ago
  Umm, Zillow with the right filters. All the 20 acre plots you want for $20K. You better have a vehicle with some ground clearance.
  - walrus01 8y ago
    And in many places consider that a road which is passable by a light duty 4x4 or pickup in summer, due to snow, may be snowmobile or snow cat access only in winter. Unless you pave the access road and have it plowed.
joe_the_user 8y ago
That is certainly the budget as things are done now. It seems possible you could create a process to do this level of development on an industrial scale and get costs down to the level mentioned.
syedkarim 8y ago
Just built a 1680 square foot house on agricultural land. Septic was $18,000. Water well was $10,000. Electric company charged $3000 to bring a line out 400 feet from the road. Gas line cost even more to bring out.
adrianmonk 8y ago
Presumably they're talking about a transit-oriented housing subdivision with hundreds of houses all centered around a train station. With that sort of arrangement, you'd have economies of scale on the utility hookups. But other problems remain, like getting the train service.

wonderwonder 8y ago

I think if this was the case, wealthier people would swoop in and buy them up by the dozen, then rent them out for triple their mortgage. They would all be sold in bulk before the builder broke ground. Capitalism is very kind to those who already have capital.

gowld 8y ago

You describe the history of American suburban sprawl, ignored the fact that it's wholly unsistainable (as documented in may articles posted here, suburbs go bankrupt in 50-100 years when the maintenance bills and bond payments come due, unless they can force cities to subsidize them), and ignored the fact that is already exists all over the nation.

jiveturkey 8y ago

others have destroyed your flight of fancy by detailing how expensive it is to drill a well, etc, but let me add one. the cost of commuter rail service, never mind anything approaching high speed, utterly destroys your argument. it cannot be done.

WillPostForFood 8y ago
Maybe it can't be done in the US, for various cultural, bureaucratic, and legal reasons, but it has been done successfully in other parts of the world. http://ontheworldmap.com/japan/city/tokyo/tokyo-rail-map.jpg http://ontheworldmap.com/japan/city/tokyo/tokyo-rail-map.jpg

SomewhatLikely 8y ago

In most cities, the outlying communities already exist. It's the transportation that's the hard part.

TheCoelacanth 8y ago

Assuming a below average construction cost of $100 per square foot, $25k would let you build 250 square feet of housing. Not many people would be happy with that amount of space, and that doesn't leave any money for land acquisition, constructing any of the other infrastructure needed to support the house, or constructing the rail transportation.