4 ms·

As of 1:04 pm EST, looks like MSFT has a market cap of $807B compared to Apple's $812. If you look at their Q2 filing [1], their business has 3 main components

As of 1:04 pm EST, looks like MSFT has a market cap of $807B compared to Apple's $812. If you look at their Q2 filing [1], their business has 3 main components: Productivity and Business Processes ($9.0B) - includes office, Microsoft Dynamics, LinkedIn Intelligent cloud ($7.8B) - includes server proudcts and azure Personal computing ($12.2) - includes Windows OEM revenue, xbox, search advertising, Surface It seems to me that Microsoft has a much more diversified set of products than Apple [2] with more resiliency in terms of revenue. The business world isn't migrating away from Excel any time soon. Their cloud business is growing strongly. And for the foreseeable future, Windows is the only OS for PCs outside of MacOS which is more of a luxury product (I love linux, but it just hasn't taken off for mainstream consumers). [1] https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2018-Q2/press-release-webcast https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Investor/earnings/FY-2018-Q2... [2] about 2/3 of apple's revenue comes from the iPhone. See https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q2_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf https://www.apple.com/newsroom/pdfs/Q2_FY18_Data_Summary.pdf.

mkirklions 8y ago
My experience with an iphone had me convinced Apple=AOL. Less features, more expensive, and anti-consumer practices? This is the example of short term profits to drive up stock prices. Squeezing current users, spending limited money on improvements, and charging more money will work temporarily. That said, Nintendo has been doing this for a decade, and they somehow survive. Marketing might be more powerful than competition... EDIT: Due to HN whales(or apple marketing teams), Anti consumer practices- >Intentionally slowing down old OS >Proprietary connectors >Luxury pricing >Limited to App store and removal of apps >Limited hardware An argument could be made for 'safe apps', but the rest of that list is a hard 'No, that is bad for the user'.
- Redoubts 8y ago
  > Marketing might be more powerful than competition... Or infinite choice and configuration is actually an anti-feature.
- millstone 8y ago
  "Less features and more expensive" has been Apple's modus operandi for decades. So there's nothing short-term about that. I don't agree with "anti-consumer practices."
  - Skunkleton 8y ago
    At least you don't pay for Apple products by having your personal information sold off, all so you can be manipulated into buying stuff you wouldn't have otherwise.
- setquk 8y ago
  At least Apple didn’t have a funeral for windows phone, switch the platform half way through pissing off every developer, stuff it full of telemetry and unreliable crap then can the whole platform and jump on the cloud all while deprecating specific handsets randomly for the hell of it. Microsoft are utter and total schizophrenic clowns in comparison. I spent years betting on windows phone getting mugged over and over again. My iPhone just bloody works. No other vendor has managed that yet.
- 21 8y ago
  You can't be cool if you have any other thing than an iPhone/Macbook. It's as simple as that.
- malshe 8y ago
  "Intentionally slowing down old OS" One of the main reasons why I am not upgrading my iPhone 7 Plus this year is that iOS 12 has made it amazingly smooth. I have an iPhone 5S and even that's fantastically smooth with iOS 12. This is not my experience alone btw. So I think you are just making stuff up here.
  - mr_overalls 8y ago
    > So I think you are just making stuff up here. Apple has admitted that they slow down older phones, due to battery issues. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-battery-issues/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-batt...
    - malshe 8y ago
      Older phone != older OS
heartbreak 8y ago
> And for the foreseeable future, Windows is the only OS for PCs outside of MacOS which is more of a luxury product Don't forget ChromeOS. The recent retail discount frenzy in the US (Black Friday and Cyber Monday) has opened my eyes to just how popular and affordable Chromebooks are. Edit: To clarify, I know several people (including on HN) who are taking advantage of these discounts because they use Chromebooks. Obviously discounts themselves aren't indicative of popularity.
- kodablah 8y ago
  > The recent retail discount frenzy in the US (Black Friday and Cyber Monday) has opened my eyes to just how popular [...] Chromebooks are. Careful judging popularity increases based on advertisements alone, especially in large-scale discount situations, as the sales can sometimes indicate the opposite.
- tw04 8y ago
  Since when do discount frenzies = popularity? There are currently discount frenzies on the essential phone...
wil421 8y ago
Apple is strictly consumer focused. Microsoft is consumer and enterprise focused. I also believe Microsoft will become a software and services company where consumers are targeted via mobile devices and enterprise for traditional server and workstations (non mobile). Especially as normal users keep dropping laptops for mobile devices like phones and tablets.
- dingaling 8y ago
  > Especially as normal users keep dropping laptops for mobile devices That really isn't happening. In fact laptop sales are now rising again whilst phones and tablets are saturated and static in volume.
- mandeepj 8y ago
  > Apple is strictly consumer focused. Not true. 1- https://www.apple.com/business/resources/ https://www.apple.com/business/resources/ 2 - https://www.apple.com/support/enterprise/ https://www.apple.com/support/enterprise/ 3 - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/15Apple-and-IBM-Forge-Global-Partnership-to-Transform-Enterprise-Mobility/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/15Apple-and-IBM-Forge...
partiallypro 8y ago
Big headlines like this, usually portend to a reversal. Look at the Amazon headlines around $1 Trillion, or the Winklevoss headlines when Bitcoin was at $25000. I suspect Apple will be bouncing in the coming days/weeks. That's why traders make fun of Barron's front pages, etc. If you don't believe me, you haven't traded often. Both companies are going to keep doing great, but as I said in a prior post, I do wonder how resilient Apple's revenues will be if we have a downturn in the business cycle.
ohthehugemanate 8y ago
Agree, except that windows is a clearly de-emphasized product. License revenues are contracting faster than the PC market - almost 1.5x as fast. They're not releasing new paid versions anymore, and exploring things like paid support options a la redhat. It doesn't even have a dedicated department anymore. Xbox and surface have been surging though, which is the real strength in that profit center.
- zeusk 8y ago
  > Agree, except that windows is a clearly de-emphasized product. huh? Windows licensing revenue is up 15% YoY Agree, it no longer is the marquee product brand for Microsoft but every shipping product at the heart is still based around Windows (Xbox, Surface, HoloLens, Azure).
basch 8y ago
Apple has cash and COULD move on Microsoft. Buy Adobe to compete with Office. Buy Salesforce to compete with Dynamics CRM. Buy SAP to compete with Dynamics ERP.
clubm8 8y ago
>for the foreseeable future, Windows is the only OS for PCs outside of MacOS which is more of a luxury product Counterpoint: many people are moving to a future where they don't have a home PC - they have a smartphone, a tablet, and maybe a console or entertainment system.

mkirklions 8y ago

My experience with an iphone had me convinced Apple=AOL. Less features, more expensive, and anti-consumer practices? This is the example of short term profits to drive up stock prices. Squeezing current users, spending limited money on improvements, and charging more money will work temporarily. That said, Nintendo has been doing this for a decade, and they somehow survive. Marketing might be more powerful than competition... EDIT: Due to HN whales(or apple marketing teams), Anti consumer practices- >Intentionally slowing down old OS >Proprietary connectors >Luxury pricing >Limited to App store and removal of apps >Limited hardware An argument could be made for 'safe apps', but the rest of that list is a hard 'No, that is bad for the user'.

Redoubts 8y ago
> Marketing might be more powerful than competition... Or infinite choice and configuration is actually an anti-feature.
millstone 8y ago
"Less features and more expensive" has been Apple's modus operandi for decades. So there's nothing short-term about that. I don't agree with "anti-consumer practices."
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  At least you don't pay for Apple products by having your personal information sold off, all so you can be manipulated into buying stuff you wouldn't have otherwise.
setquk 8y ago
At least Apple didn’t have a funeral for windows phone, switch the platform half way through pissing off every developer, stuff it full of telemetry and unreliable crap then can the whole platform and jump on the cloud all while deprecating specific handsets randomly for the hell of it. Microsoft are utter and total schizophrenic clowns in comparison. I spent years betting on windows phone getting mugged over and over again. My iPhone just bloody works. No other vendor has managed that yet.
21 8y ago
You can't be cool if you have any other thing than an iPhone/Macbook. It's as simple as that.
malshe 8y ago
"Intentionally slowing down old OS" One of the main reasons why I am not upgrading my iPhone 7 Plus this year is that iOS 12 has made it amazingly smooth. I have an iPhone 5S and even that's fantastically smooth with iOS 12. This is not my experience alone btw. So I think you are just making stuff up here.
- mr_overalls 8y ago
  > So I think you are just making stuff up here. Apple has admitted that they slow down older phones, due to battery issues. https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-battery-issues/ https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-slows-down-older-iphone-batt...
  - malshe 8y ago
    Older phone != older OS

heartbreak 8y ago

> And for the foreseeable future, Windows is the only OS for PCs outside of MacOS which is more of a luxury product Don't forget ChromeOS. The recent retail discount frenzy in the US (Black Friday and Cyber Monday) has opened my eyes to just how popular and affordable Chromebooks are. Edit: To clarify, I know several people (including on HN) who are taking advantage of these discounts because they use Chromebooks. Obviously discounts themselves aren't indicative of popularity.

kodablah 8y ago
> The recent retail discount frenzy in the US (Black Friday and Cyber Monday) has opened my eyes to just how popular [...] Chromebooks are. Careful judging popularity increases based on advertisements alone, especially in large-scale discount situations, as the sales can sometimes indicate the opposite.
tw04 8y ago
Since when do discount frenzies = popularity? There are currently discount frenzies on the essential phone...

wil421 8y ago

Apple is strictly consumer focused. Microsoft is consumer and enterprise focused. I also believe Microsoft will become a software and services company where consumers are targeted via mobile devices and enterprise for traditional server and workstations (non mobile). Especially as normal users keep dropping laptops for mobile devices like phones and tablets.

dingaling 8y ago
> Especially as normal users keep dropping laptops for mobile devices That really isn't happening. In fact laptop sales are now rising again whilst phones and tablets are saturated and static in volume.
mandeepj 8y ago
> Apple is strictly consumer focused. Not true. 1- https://www.apple.com/business/resources/ https://www.apple.com/business/resources/ 2 - https://www.apple.com/support/enterprise/ https://www.apple.com/support/enterprise/ 3 - https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/15Apple-and-IBM-Forge-Global-Partnership-to-Transform-Enterprise-Mobility/ https://www.apple.com/newsroom/2014/07/15Apple-and-IBM-Forge...

partiallypro 8y ago

Big headlines like this, usually portend to a reversal. Look at the Amazon headlines around $1 Trillion, or the Winklevoss headlines when Bitcoin was at $25000. I suspect Apple will be bouncing in the coming days/weeks. That's why traders make fun of Barron's front pages, etc. If you don't believe me, you haven't traded often. Both companies are going to keep doing great, but as I said in a prior post, I do wonder how resilient Apple's revenues will be if we have a downturn in the business cycle.

ohthehugemanate 8y ago

Agree, except that windows is a clearly de-emphasized product. License revenues are contracting faster than the PC market - almost 1.5x as fast. They're not releasing new paid versions anymore, and exploring things like paid support options a la redhat. It doesn't even have a dedicated department anymore. Xbox and surface have been surging though, which is the real strength in that profit center.

zeusk 8y ago
> Agree, except that windows is a clearly de-emphasized product. huh? Windows licensing revenue is up 15% YoY Agree, it no longer is the marquee product brand for Microsoft but every shipping product at the heart is still based around Windows (Xbox, Surface, HoloLens, Azure).

basch 8y ago

Apple has cash and COULD move on Microsoft. Buy Adobe to compete with Office. Buy Salesforce to compete with Dynamics CRM. Buy SAP to compete with Dynamics ERP.

clubm8 8y ago

>for the foreseeable future, Windows is the only OS for PCs outside of MacOS which is more of a luxury product Counterpoint: many people are moving to a future where they don't have a home PC - they have a smartphone, a tablet, and maybe a console or entertainment system.