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Well there's other issues with Linux on the desktop that doesn't let anybody except developers use it productively. You always have to weight your priorities,

Well there's other issues with Linux on the desktop that doesn't let anybody except developers use it productively. You always have to weight your priorities, and getting stuff done is often number one priority.

Sylos 8y ago
The use in government would mean running it in centrally administered form. The end user would just as well just click on the icon on their desktop and the application opens where they do their work. There may obviously be other problems, like the application not being available on Linux, or needing administrators with Linux knowledge, but that's nothing the end user has to deal with.
emayljames 8y ago
LTS (Long Term Service) versions of Linux OS' are now breaking even, or even sometimes ahead, of Windows. Office is easily on par (actually better IMO). You can have the UI exactly as you want it to be. You have GIMP. The home of Apache/PHP, and many other improvements!.
- winrid 8y ago
  Word is light-years ahead of any open source alternative. Gimp is not a photoshop replacement. These guys don't care about Apache on their desktops. :)
  - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
    Lucky you can use Word in a browser these days, then. I'm not sure which government departments are using Photoshop but the few that do could just as easily use Macs.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    Most people do not use any advanced features, neither in Writer nor in Word. You can congratulate yourself, if your colleagues know what are styles, most just hard-code the formatting.
    - Klover 8y ago
      If this “normal users are stupid” thing is supposed to be in favour of Linux then it’s a stale argument.
      - vetinari 8y ago
        Normal users are not stupid. They just don't care.
        brokenmachine 8y ago
        How can you tell when the end result is identical? /s
    - thepp1983 8y ago
      The problem is not whether YOU use the advanced features. It is whether someone else does. I generally don't require any better than Markdown and for larger documents I just LaTeX. However I am normally sent work documents with all sorts of macros from other companies (embedded forms) to fill out for things like payments, right to work etc. These require Microsoft Office. Originally when I started I thought I could get away with Libre Office. It worked at best 50% and these weren't complex macros (I inspected them myself). None of these forms are outside the norm of what a HR department, University faculty office or most medium to large companies use.
      - vetinari 8y ago
        It's mostly _ME_ who uses the advanced features, not people around me. In cca last 10 years, I've seen exactly one Excel with macros that someone wanted other people to use. (No, you can't use VBA with LibreOffice, just like you cannot use Python UNO scripts with MS Office). The reason is mostly security: nobody wants to run random macros on their machines (where nobody means their IT departments, the users wouldn't care) and for the uses that you mention, for random forms, web-based forms are used and links to them are getting send. At least in my corner of woods.
  - hyperman1 8y ago
    Unfortunately, Word is light-years behind any alternative, open source or not. Styling is a half-assed inconsistent mess. Bullet indentation jumps around like crazy. Changing your default printer might cause reformatting. There is no decent separation between content and formatting. The menu ^h^h^h^h^h^h ribbon is such a mess you need a search function. Word is the kind of product that should be taken out and shot. I speak as someone who used word competitors back in the days when there were some left. Now if you say Excel, however, we might start to agree. BTW, while Gimp is not a photoshop replacement (please fix the window behaviour, guys) but krita is getting really nice, and plenty good enough for your average corporate user.
    - Sylos 8y ago
      > BTW, while Gimp is not a photoshop replacement (please fix the window behaviour, guys) If you mean the multi-window behaviour, as of 2.10 the default is now set to single-window. If you don't have 2.10 in your distro yet, you can toggle that on in the menubar: Windows -> Single-Window Mode
mario0b1 8y ago
The Problem (atleast in my opinion) is that there will "never" be any change in this if people are not willing to sacrifice just a little bit of usability. Why should companys write software for an OS that does not get used? Sure, getting stuff done is a high priority, but has it to be number one? Can't we put ethics (or call it whatever you want) above it? We definitely need a lot more competition
- thepp1983 8y ago
  None of the parties that are involved in Linux actually care one iota about the desktop. At best it is a side project. It is phones, servers and embedded, Only a very small percentage of what is a shrinking market uses it uses it on the desktop. It will never happen. The only company that has really invested into anything close to Desktop Linux is Google and it is Chrome books which are pretty much a walled garden. While it was better than it was 15 years ago, there are still dumb problems like "Why doesn't by usb headset work?" or "Oh X shat itself again with my GPU". Whereas with Windows I can reinstall the GPU drivers while playing a youtube video. The only thing I haven't had work is some cheapo chinese Serial PCI card from fleabay.
  - ernst_klim 8y ago
    >Why doesn't by usb headset work? >The only thing I haven't had work is some cheapo chinese Serial PCI card from fleabay. You are contradicting yourself here. Besides, linux hardware support is incredible nowadays, and most of the time if you have problems with linux, you would have them with windows as well (aka, oem drivers for crappy nonstandard custom hardware). Nowadays most of the soundcards, gamepads, headsets would just work, at least their standard functionality. Also, RedHat cares about desktop, and canonical cared a lot. Nowadays RedHat is involved in a proper hybrid graphics support, gnome desktop etc. In some areas linux is lagging behind, for example accessability is still not the best, though gnome people are very concerned about it (that was one of the major reason for using a full gnome shell for login).
    - thepp1983 8y ago
blacksmith_tb 8y ago
Don't tell the ChromeOS team (and tens of millions of Chromebook/box) users that... though I doubt they'll be on any corporate IT wishlists (then again, they require very little support...).

Sylos 8y ago

The use in government would mean running it in centrally administered form. The end user would just as well just click on the icon on their desktop and the application opens where they do their work. There may obviously be other problems, like the application not being available on Linux, or needing administrators with Linux knowledge, but that's nothing the end user has to deal with.

emayljames 8y ago

LTS (Long Term Service) versions of Linux OS' are now breaking even, or even sometimes ahead, of Windows. Office is easily on par (actually better IMO). You can have the UI exactly as you want it to be. You have GIMP. The home of Apache/PHP, and many other improvements!.

winrid 8y ago
Word is light-years ahead of any open source alternative. Gimp is not a photoshop replacement. These guys don't care about Apache on their desktops. :)
- SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
  Lucky you can use Word in a browser these days, then. I'm not sure which government departments are using Photoshop but the few that do could just as easily use Macs.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Most people do not use any advanced features, neither in Writer nor in Word. You can congratulate yourself, if your colleagues know what are styles, most just hard-code the formatting.
  - Klover 8y ago
    If this “normal users are stupid” thing is supposed to be in favour of Linux then it’s a stale argument.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      Normal users are not stupid. They just don't care.
      - brokenmachine 8y ago
        How can you tell when the end result is identical? /s
  - thepp1983 8y ago
    The problem is not whether YOU use the advanced features. It is whether someone else does. I generally don't require any better than Markdown and for larger documents I just LaTeX. However I am normally sent work documents with all sorts of macros from other companies (embedded forms) to fill out for things like payments, right to work etc. These require Microsoft Office. Originally when I started I thought I could get away with Libre Office. It worked at best 50% and these weren't complex macros (I inspected them myself). None of these forms are outside the norm of what a HR department, University faculty office or most medium to large companies use.
    - vetinari 8y ago
      It's mostly _ME_ who uses the advanced features, not people around me. In cca last 10 years, I've seen exactly one Excel with macros that someone wanted other people to use. (No, you can't use VBA with LibreOffice, just like you cannot use Python UNO scripts with MS Office). The reason is mostly security: nobody wants to run random macros on their machines (where nobody means their IT departments, the users wouldn't care) and for the uses that you mention, for random forms, web-based forms are used and links to them are getting send. At least in my corner of woods.
- hyperman1 8y ago
  Unfortunately, Word is light-years behind any alternative, open source or not. Styling is a half-assed inconsistent mess. Bullet indentation jumps around like crazy. Changing your default printer might cause reformatting. There is no decent separation between content and formatting. The menu ^h^h^h^h^h^h ribbon is such a mess you need a search function. Word is the kind of product that should be taken out and shot. I speak as someone who used word competitors back in the days when there were some left. Now if you say Excel, however, we might start to agree. BTW, while Gimp is not a photoshop replacement (please fix the window behaviour, guys) but krita is getting really nice, and plenty good enough for your average corporate user.
  - Sylos 8y ago
    > BTW, while Gimp is not a photoshop replacement (please fix the window behaviour, guys) If you mean the multi-window behaviour, as of 2.10 the default is now set to single-window. If you don't have 2.10 in your distro yet, you can toggle that on in the menubar: Windows -> Single-Window Mode

mario0b1 8y ago

The Problem (atleast in my opinion) is that there will "never" be any change in this if people are not willing to sacrifice just a little bit of usability. Why should companys write software for an OS that does not get used? Sure, getting stuff done is a high priority, but has it to be number one? Can't we put ethics (or call it whatever you want) above it? We definitely need a lot more competition

thepp1983 8y ago
None of the parties that are involved in Linux actually care one iota about the desktop. At best it is a side project. It is phones, servers and embedded, Only a very small percentage of what is a shrinking market uses it uses it on the desktop. It will never happen. The only company that has really invested into anything close to Desktop Linux is Google and it is Chrome books which are pretty much a walled garden. While it was better than it was 15 years ago, there are still dumb problems like "Why doesn't by usb headset work?" or "Oh X shat itself again with my GPU". Whereas with Windows I can reinstall the GPU drivers while playing a youtube video. The only thing I haven't had work is some cheapo chinese Serial PCI card from fleabay.
- ernst_klim 8y ago
  >Why doesn't by usb headset work? >The only thing I haven't had work is some cheapo chinese Serial PCI card from fleabay. You are contradicting yourself here. Besides, linux hardware support is incredible nowadays, and most of the time if you have problems with linux, you would have them with windows as well (aka, oem drivers for crappy nonstandard custom hardware). Nowadays most of the soundcards, gamepads, headsets would just work, at least their standard functionality. Also, RedHat cares about desktop, and canonical cared a lot. Nowadays RedHat is involved in a proper hybrid graphics support, gnome desktop etc. In some areas linux is lagging behind, for example accessability is still not the best, though gnome people are very concerned about it (that was one of the major reason for using a full gnome shell for login).
  - thepp1983 8y ago

blacksmith_tb 8y ago

Don't tell the ChromeOS team (and tens of millions of Chromebook/box) users that... though I doubt they'll be on any corporate IT wishlists (then again, they require very little support...).