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I didn't spot where it said why the SFFD themselves manufacture the ladders (as opposed to buying them from somewhere). Should it really be the job of the SFFD
by iuguy 16y ago
I didn't spot where it said why the SFFD themselves manufacture the ladders (as opposed to buying them from somewhere). Should it really be the job of the SFFD to build ladders from raw materials?
- silvestrov 16y agoI think it's the only method to ensure that all the ladders are of perfect quality. If you outsource the production to the lowest-bidder, then you get lowest-bidder quality. It's a way different thing to build a ladder that your colleagues (and friends) are going to climb, than to build something on an constantly more restrained time schedule for somebody you don't even know the name of. The latter encourages shortcuts, the former encourages avoiding them.
- rdl 16y agoThere are a lot of life safety devices which are made by someone other than an end user, after competitive bidding. You either need to do testing of every article delivered, or set up something like ISO 9000/9001 quality management and accept that you will be paying a premium for a documented, repeatable process. Counterfeit parts getting into the supply chain (which might be visually identical, and may even appear identical to testing) are a problem, but that's where having documented/audited suppliers comes in.
- davnola 16y ago> I think it's the only method to ensure that all the ladders are of perfect quality I think there must to be more to it than that. Or airlines are making their own airliners now? :)
- Hixie 16y agoThe airlines are clearly not ensuring that anything is perfect quality.
- jmtulloss 16y agoFlying is statistically much safer than driving. They may not ensure quality in many of their amenities, but their safety standards are as high as they come.
- deleted 16y ago[deleted]
- Retric 16y agoThat's not exactly an apples to apples comparison the space shuttle's record sit's between cars and commercial aircraft in deaths per passenger mile. 14 deaths in 20k orbits * 7 people @ 42k miles per orbit. = 1 death per 420 million miles vs commercial aircraft which sit at 1 death per 2,000 million miles vs cars at 1 death per 80 million miles. But, the shuttle is not exactly a safe ride. Now, if you line things up by trip, it's car's then aircraft then the shuttle.
- joezydeco 16y agoI wonder what it does to workmens-comp and liability insurance when you build the equipment your employees use as opposed to something bought from a vendor. When a ladder breaks and a firefighter breaks a leg, the department can't really sue itself, can it?
- britta 16y agoThe video says that nobody has been injured on these wooden ladders - nobody has fallen off. It's implied that none of them have broken in action. Probably worth it to them.
- anamax 16y ago> When a ladder breaks and a firefighter breaks a leg, the department can't really sue itself, can it? The department doesn't sue, the firefighter does. Department-made equipment means that the city is the only party on the other side of the lawsuit.
- anamax 16y ago> I think it's the only method to ensure that all the ladders are of perfect quality. Then what about their trucks, their hats and coats, their hoses, and so on?
- tristan_juricek 16y agoI don't think it's just a quality concern. The video mentions a 15-year "maturation period" for the wood to acclimate to the humidity in San Francisco. If that's a requirement, I doubt there's much of a market (and space) for manufacturing to take place out in the city itself. Maybe wood used for wine barrels? Doesn't seem like much of a market.
- mhb 16y agoThat isn't unique to ladders - wood for any project should acclimate to its environment (humidity) before starting construction and it doesn't take 15 years.
- jacquesm 16y agoActually, the time it takes is roughly dependent on the thickness of the wood and the delta in humidity from the place where it was cut and the place where it will be used. Typically you want to avoid wood used for ladders drying out after the ladder is put together because it will loosen the joints. The varnish helps with this as well.
- mhb 16y agoOK. And it doesn't take 15 years for the moisture content of wood in the thickness they are using for those ladders to come to equilibrium. And that is assuming that the moisture content is asymptotically approaching some target humidity. Since the humidity in San Francisco varies quite a lot the target ambient humidity is not constant. So although they may make fine ladders, it's not because they have the wood sitting around for over a decade.
- duffbeer703 16y agoThe longer you acclimate the wood, the tighter the joints are. You also are able to spot flaws in the wood. This is one of the reasons why people recover wood from old barns -- a farmer I worked for in high school was offered a substantial amount of money for wood in a Dutch barn built in the 1600's. These guys are old-school craftsman who are obsessed with quality. Refreshing in this age of disposability.
- chadp 16y agoa). it is a tradition b). they want to keep the tradition c). they like building the ladders to ensure safety for their fellow firefighters d). why even question whether they should keep doing it or not. leave them to continue their traditions and handiwork.
- davidw 16y agoI'm not going to get into whether it's right or not, but "why even question it?" - because they are spending other people's money.
- jonhendry 16y agoI suspect you can find many larger, clearer, and more pressing "wastes" of public money than this. Although it would be a good idea to check the income and pension deals the shop staff have to make sure they're sane.
- davidw 16y ago> I suspect you can find many larger, clearer, and more pressing "wastes" of public money than this. No doubt about it. I was just answering the question "why even ask".
- twillerelator 16y agoThey mentioned something about overhead electrical cables.
- sp4rki 16y agoBecause SF has low hanging power lines and because the weight makes them more stable in windy situations. Why not? It's not like if they had firemen do ladders in their free time. They have a different department where only 2 people work making ladders.
- daniel-cussen 16y agoFor maybe $700,000 a year, between public servant wages, benefits, and rent.
- sp4rki 16y agoWhat does that have to do with the question? There's a reason they make their own ladders regardless of what it costs.