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How is this story related to these political movements you're describing? The events in the article seem like the usual robberies, unrelated to any political ca

How is this story related to these political movements you're describing? The events in the article seem like the usual robberies, unrelated to any political cause.

fareesh 8y ago
Like I said it seems like the local governments in both these places which share the same politics, are involved in actively holding back the local police force from doing their jobs. Is it not reasonable to hold the local government responsible for safety on the train? Given their track record for asking the police to be hands off, isn't the prevalence of unchecked crime in trains, crime on campuses and crime on the streets consistent with that track record?
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- ryanmonroe 8y ago
  I don't see it. Crime is up on the subway, so you think this is part of a politically motivated strategy to "[hold] back the police force from doing their jobs"? The article says they have a lot of vacancies. Maybe they can't find people who want the job? Maybe their budget for policeman salaries doesn't fare well compared to the area housing prices? I could think of quite a few possible reasons for a rise in crime before getting to the idea that this must be some leftist plot to help the criminals. A track record of holding police back from political protests isn't relevant. There's no political group supporting these robbers.
  - fareesh 8y ago
    Of course it can be many of those things. I was just pointing out that policing does not seem to be favored by the local government. In most of those other instances there were police officers available, so availability of police in the general case has not been the reason for why crimes were not stopped, when there was ample opportunity to stop them.
    - ryanmonroe 8y ago
      I don't believe there is this large "criminal apologist" political force as you say there is. On the example you gave of a decision to hold back police force at an Antifa counterprotest, the police chief gave this explanation: "If police had deployed tear gas, they could have dispersed the black bloc, but they also would have gassed hundreds of peaceful protesters – including seniors and children – who had marched over from a “Say No to Hate” rally at nearby Ohlone Park." So they were concerned about injuring civilians, and moved in after all the non-criminals fleed, arresting 13 people. But even if there was this political motive to allow leftists to break laws with impunity, that has nothing to do with this story. This story is about run-of-the-mill robberies. Antifa doesn't run around robbing random people, and I don't think you'll find any influential bay-area politicians arguing against arresting people for robbery.
      - wolco 8y ago
        Left or right, I haven't heard of any politician taking on the bart safety issue.
        fareesh 8y ago
        https://twitter.com/CBakerAD16/status/1028014127967494144 https://twitter.com/CBakerAD16/status/1028014127967494144
  - linksnapzz 8y ago
    <q> There’s no political group supporting these robbers </q> Sure there are. I know how to easily identify them, too. If, perchance, one of the robbers is shot and killed while committing an armed robbery, look to see which groups are more concerned about punishing the shooter than blaming the criminal. Insofar as this is California, it will be a substantial list.
    - ryanmonroe 8y ago
      For all of the protests against police shootings / killings I know of, the protests were due to the fact that the criminal was unarmed and didn't actually pose a threat. Is there really a large political movement against shooting armed criminals?
      - lamarpye 8y ago
        Yes, there is.
    - adjkant 8y ago
      So you say there are some, you can identify them, and then fail to name a single one. Can you name them?
      - jbmorgado 8y ago
        BLM
jackcosgrove 8y ago
First off, I'm almost positive the "political movement" is Antifa. No need to beat around the bush. The alleged connection, if I'm reading GP right, is the shackling of police due to political pressure, and a more general breakdown in law and order. I'm not sure the Bart police are restrained from above, as it could also be a lack of resources that prevents them from patrolling the trains on foot. But a growing disrespect for the law does seem to be occurring in West Coast cities over and above what is happening elsewhere.
- Bud 8y ago
  Based on what data?
- nradov 8y ago
  There was the notorious incident in 2016 when the San Jose Police stood down and allowed rioters to violently assault Trump campaign supporters. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/27/appeals-court-trump-supporters-can-sue-san-jose-officers-over-rally-violence/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/27/appeals-court-trump-s...

How is this story related to these political movements you're describing? The events in the article seem like the usual robberies, unrelated to any political cause.

fareesh 8y ago

Like I said it seems like the local governments in both these places which share the same politics, are involved in actively holding back the local police force from doing their jobs. Is it not reasonable to hold the local government responsible for safety on the train? Given their track record for asking the police to be hands off, isn't the prevalence of unchecked crime in trains, crime on campuses and crime on the streets consistent with that track record?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ryanmonroe 8y ago
I don't see it. Crime is up on the subway, so you think this is part of a politically motivated strategy to "[hold] back the police force from doing their jobs"? The article says they have a lot of vacancies. Maybe they can't find people who want the job? Maybe their budget for policeman salaries doesn't fare well compared to the area housing prices? I could think of quite a few possible reasons for a rise in crime before getting to the idea that this must be some leftist plot to help the criminals. A track record of holding police back from political protests isn't relevant. There's no political group supporting these robbers.
- fareesh 8y ago
  Of course it can be many of those things. I was just pointing out that policing does not seem to be favored by the local government. In most of those other instances there were police officers available, so availability of police in the general case has not been the reason for why crimes were not stopped, when there was ample opportunity to stop them.
  - ryanmonroe 8y ago
    I don't believe there is this large "criminal apologist" political force as you say there is. On the example you gave of a decision to hold back police force at an Antifa counterprotest, the police chief gave this explanation: "If police had deployed tear gas, they could have dispersed the black bloc, but they also would have gassed hundreds of peaceful protesters – including seniors and children – who had marched over from a “Say No to Hate” rally at nearby Ohlone Park." So they were concerned about injuring civilians, and moved in after all the non-criminals fleed, arresting 13 people. But even if there was this political motive to allow leftists to break laws with impunity, that has nothing to do with this story. This story is about run-of-the-mill robberies. Antifa doesn't run around robbing random people, and I don't think you'll find any influential bay-area politicians arguing against arresting people for robbery.
    - wolco 8y ago
      Left or right, I haven't heard of any politician taking on the bart safety issue.
      - fareesh 8y ago
        https://twitter.com/CBakerAD16/status/1028014127967494144 https://twitter.com/CBakerAD16/status/1028014127967494144
- linksnapzz 8y ago
  <q> There’s no political group supporting these robbers </q> Sure there are. I know how to easily identify them, too. If, perchance, one of the robbers is shot and killed while committing an armed robbery, look to see which groups are more concerned about punishing the shooter than blaming the criminal. Insofar as this is California, it will be a substantial list.
  - ryanmonroe 8y ago
    For all of the protests against police shootings / killings I know of, the protests were due to the fact that the criminal was unarmed and didn't actually pose a threat. Is there really a large political movement against shooting armed criminals?
    - lamarpye 8y ago
      Yes, there is.
  - adjkant 8y ago
    So you say there are some, you can identify them, and then fail to name a single one. Can you name them?
    - jbmorgado 8y ago
      BLM

jackcosgrove 8y ago

First off, I'm almost positive the "political movement" is Antifa. No need to beat around the bush. The alleged connection, if I'm reading GP right, is the shackling of police due to political pressure, and a more general breakdown in law and order. I'm not sure the Bart police are restrained from above, as it could also be a lack of resources that prevents them from patrolling the trains on foot. But a growing disrespect for the law does seem to be occurring in West Coast cities over and above what is happening elsewhere.

Bud 8y ago
Based on what data?
nradov 8y ago
There was the notorious incident in 2016 when the San Jose Police stood down and allowed rioters to violently assault Trump campaign supporters. https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/27/appeals-court-trump-supporters-can-sue-san-jose-officers-over-rally-violence/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2018/07/27/appeals-court-trump-s...