5 ms·

The point here, though, is that it doesn't matter whether the driver could've seen them, because culpability rests with the driver by default (except, as mentio

The point here, though, is that it doesn't matter whether the driver could've seen them, because culpability rests with the driver by default (except, as mentioned, in situations such as motorways, where pedestrians aren't allowed). In very general terms, as a pedestrian in the UK, you have no particular right to step into the road other than at marked crossings, but as soon as you do, you have total right of way, no matter how stupid it was of you to step into the road. There are various crimes in the vein of 'obstructing a public highway' and so forth, so you aren't completely free to be an asshole, but even if you are, it's still on drivers to avoid hitting you; in my experience, this tends to make drivers more careful and aware of nearby pedestrians, so I'm fully in favour of the status quo.

Dylan16807 8y ago
I'm sure it works fine in practice, but it's still not ideal if you can put one foot into the street and oblige cars to slam on their brakes.
- eponeponepon 8y ago
  No, that wouldn't be ideal - but that's also not how it is.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Well you're the expert here, can you please tell me why I'm wrong? I'm just trying to go by your earlier explanation. I'd like to be wrong here!
- esotericn 8y ago
  If you're driving a car and someone walks in front of the car you'll slam on the brakes. This is independent of legality. I'd hope that it'd be the case even if laws were passed that explicitly punished braking in such a scenario. Anyway, in the UK, it's illegal to walk down the side of a motorway. But basically anywhere else is free reign for pedestrians. People don't generally walk out in front of (fast moving) cars because they're not suicidal. In a place like London it's fun to watch (and take part in) the stand-off between cars and pedestrians though. I womble through crossings all the time. The lights are advisory for pedestrians. They're designed that way; the green man exists for the elderly and children.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    When I said "can", I meant by the rules, not the laws of physics. The car is morally obligated to try not to hit anyone no matter what, but that's not what I'm talking about. And the picture I have in mind isn't someone suicidally leaping in front of a car, it's someone taking one step to order the cars to stop. This would be fine if there was a "reasonable stopping rate" clause, but it doesn't sound like there is.
    - pjc50 8y ago
      So what? People don't do this deliberately very often because there's always the risk that the driver doesn't stop. If you try edging into the road you'll get honked at. The concept of jaywalking has never made any sense to me as a Brit; it's like that joke sign meme of "Danger of death and £20 fine".
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        If your response to "this works but is not ideal" is "people don't abuse it very often" then I think we agree. I'm not arguing for any particular change.
        SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        There's quite strong evolutionary pressure on people not to abuse it. The ones that do often don't last very long.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        That's pressure not to jump in front of cars. You don't have to jump in front of a car to trigger this rule, you just have to put one foot into the road.
        esotericn 8y ago
        It's unclear to me what the problem is, here. Are you picturing bored teenagers doing this as a joke or something? In practice this is incredibly rare. Such 'feral children' will be causing way worse problems elsewhere anyway. If you're driving in London and someone gets a bit close to the edge of the footpath and looks like they might walk out, yes, you slow down and get ready to stop. If you actually think they're walking out, you brake hard. Because you don't want to hit them. But on a very basic level pedestrians have right of way in old world cities anyway. There are junctions in Central London whereby cars often struggle to pass even when the light is green (Kings Cross station is a good one, taxi drivers like to "push" people out of the way by edging closer)
- vkou 8y ago
  If as a driver, you aren't willing to slam on the brakes, to avoid killing someone, because you feel you have right of way... You shouldn't be driving. Your first goal, as a driver, should be avoiding accidents. Your second goal should be following the rules of the road. A human life is more important then enforcing your claim to the right of way.
  - 113 8y ago
    "Aha, you fool! You have obstructed my right of way and now you must die."
    - blattimwind 8y ago
      "These mortal fools with their ignorant and mislead readings of traffic code!"

Dylan16807 8y ago

I'm sure it works fine in practice, but it's still not ideal if you can put one foot into the street and oblige cars to slam on their brakes.

eponeponepon 8y ago
No, that wouldn't be ideal - but that's also not how it is.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Well you're the expert here, can you please tell me why I'm wrong? I'm just trying to go by your earlier explanation. I'd like to be wrong here!
esotericn 8y ago
If you're driving a car and someone walks in front of the car you'll slam on the brakes. This is independent of legality. I'd hope that it'd be the case even if laws were passed that explicitly punished braking in such a scenario. Anyway, in the UK, it's illegal to walk down the side of a motorway. But basically anywhere else is free reign for pedestrians. People don't generally walk out in front of (fast moving) cars because they're not suicidal. In a place like London it's fun to watch (and take part in) the stand-off between cars and pedestrians though. I womble through crossings all the time. The lights are advisory for pedestrians. They're designed that way; the green man exists for the elderly and children.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  When I said "can", I meant by the rules, not the laws of physics. The car is morally obligated to try not to hit anyone no matter what, but that's not what I'm talking about. And the picture I have in mind isn't someone suicidally leaping in front of a car, it's someone taking one step to order the cars to stop. This would be fine if there was a "reasonable stopping rate" clause, but it doesn't sound like there is.
  - pjc50 8y ago
    So what? People don't do this deliberately very often because there's always the risk that the driver doesn't stop. If you try edging into the road you'll get honked at. The concept of jaywalking has never made any sense to me as a Brit; it's like that joke sign meme of "Danger of death and £20 fine".
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      If your response to "this works but is not ideal" is "people don't abuse it very often" then I think we agree. I'm not arguing for any particular change.
      - SmellyGeekBoy 8y ago
        There's quite strong evolutionary pressure on people not to abuse it. The ones that do often don't last very long.
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        That's pressure not to jump in front of cars. You don't have to jump in front of a car to trigger this rule, you just have to put one foot into the road.
        esotericn 8y ago
        It's unclear to me what the problem is, here. Are you picturing bored teenagers doing this as a joke or something? In practice this is incredibly rare. Such 'feral children' will be causing way worse problems elsewhere anyway. If you're driving in London and someone gets a bit close to the edge of the footpath and looks like they might walk out, yes, you slow down and get ready to stop. If you actually think they're walking out, you brake hard. Because you don't want to hit them. But on a very basic level pedestrians have right of way in old world cities anyway. There are junctions in Central London whereby cars often struggle to pass even when the light is green (Kings Cross station is a good one, taxi drivers like to "push" people out of the way by edging closer)
vkou 8y ago
If as a driver, you aren't willing to slam on the brakes, to avoid killing someone, because you feel you have right of way... You shouldn't be driving. Your first goal, as a driver, should be avoiding accidents. Your second goal should be following the rules of the road. A human life is more important then enforcing your claim to the right of way.
- 113 8y ago
  "Aha, you fool! You have obstructed my right of way and now you must die."
  - blattimwind 8y ago
    "These mortal fools with their ignorant and mislead readings of traffic code!"