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I did the Android nanodegree, and have never had so much as an interview. I think people's success after Udacity is largely determined by their educational back

I did the Android nanodegree, and have never had so much as an interview. I think people's success after Udacity is largely determined by their educational background before Udacity. For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. I have a non-STEM degree. On the other hand, seeing comments from people who dropped out of nanodegrees makes me consider that maybe it's a little more difficult than it seems. Moreover, the job market for mobile is just bad. It's either six figure rockstar, or unemployment. I think doing one of the javascript ones might have produced better job prospects. At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not.

kyle_martin1 8y ago
I used to do mobile development. You need a strong portfolio to compete. I had made around 6 apps (some my ideas and some for clients) when I got my first mobile job. Consider making some novel apps without any expectation of being paid. Nothing guarantees you a job. If you’re not hearing back...there’s got to be a logical reason. Be honest with yourself and come up with a list of 25 things that will give you an edge and start doing them. Just don’t give up! Regarding the education comment...I’m going to disagree with you there. Employers don’t care where you went to school. They care about what you’ve done in the past (doesn’t matter if it’s at work or on the side) and what you can bring to the table. I had to compete with people with PhDs for my current AV job but I got the job because of the whole package of skills that I bring rather than theoretical knowledge in a single niche topic.
- Judgmentality 8y ago
  > Employers don’t care where you went to school. This depends on the employer. Google is notorious for not only caring about your school, but your GPA. Also as someone who has looked at hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes over the years - the reality is you very quickly start to look for any sort of signal and schools are definitely something some (I would guess most) consider. Do I think it's unfair? Sure. But recruiters simply do not have the time to look into every applicant with any sort of detail.
  - physcab 8y ago
    I’m not so sure anymore. I’ve worked at a couple FANGs and I have never looked at a candidates resume beyond their last job or two. I only look at their degree to calculate years of experience in my head. But ultimately we put faith in our interview process more than a resume. I would totally hire someone who has relevant experience than what their degrees were (or any), as long as they passed the normal interview gauntlet that everyone takes.
    - zaptheimpaler 8y ago
      Engineers typically don't care so much about school, but the first filter is recruiters who do. A recruiter has <10s to read your resume and has no technical knowledge, so a good school or FANG on your resume helps you pass their screen.
      - sh87 8y ago
        years of mostly pointless assignments, lectures and pre-test cramming coupled with thousands of hard earned dollars spent on getting <10s of attention from a recruiter. Feels harsh, strange and unproductive enough to be true.
  - dmourati 8y ago
    No longer true at Google about degree/GPA.
  - noitsnot 8y ago
    Let's say you get past recruiters and/or HR. You're sitting in a room full of potential coworkers who question how you wake up in the morning and put on your pants because they went to a four year school and have that degree. It's a club and you're not in it.
    - tylerhou 8y ago
      This is not the experience I had when interviewing at my current employer (or any employer I’ve interviewed at!) and I didn’t go to college.
- dmortin 8y ago
  > Consider making some novel apps without any expectation of being paid. This part is non-trivial, is it? Coming up with a new kind of app idea (which is useful, not just shows 3 twirling balls or something) is not easy. And doing the millionth todo app or something is not the same.
  - sh87 8y ago
    If you were a novice painter/cook/carpenter/sculptor/singer/accountant/mechanic what would you include in a portfolio? Now, the portfolio exists to demonstrate a skill you posess. You'd look for established people and their works from your domain and copy them to study their methods, their style. Figure out and differentiate the core from the frills. Tweak, mix, combine, jam and fuse what you've learnt. Then you'd merge your favorite styles together to create your own, novel work. Repeat enough times and you have a solid portfolio. Unfortunately, the programming world is crippled with 'get rich quick' apps/websites/products. Most newbie programmers believe that unless they have a novel idea, they cannot and should not build an app or a website. That attitude sucks the life and joy out of learning anything including programming. I strongly urge you to copy, steal and be inspired by as many apps and websites as you can before going for novelty. What you will learn in the process far outweighs any commercial success that you can hope for. Good luck.
jammygit 8y ago
There's no better resume than a bunch of portfolio projects you've built (imho)
- jehlakj 8y ago
  That typically works when your works are mostly visual and the position takes that into account. Most hiring managers won’t bother reading a single line of code.
  - jammygit 8y ago
    I wonder how helpful it would be to blog or make videos about them compares to just having the projects.
rahimnathwani 8y ago
"For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. I have a non-STEM degree." According to the OP's LinkedIn profile, he started his undergrad in Computer Engineering in 2015, started doing Udacity courses in 2017, and expects to complete his degree in 2020.
barry-cotter 8y ago
He hasn’t finished his degree > And I’m actually still attending my university online, to finish my Bachelor’s. I’ve stayed enrolled the whole time.
arvinsim 8y ago
> I think doing one of the javascript ones might have produced better job prospects. > Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not. Why not make your side project a javascript oriented one? Two birds with one stone.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
puranjay 8y ago
I see a nanodegree or coding skills for that matter as an addendum to your existing skills. The branches to your 'T' shaped skilltree. That said, you do have to adopt a non standard route to getting a job from a nanodegree. You can't apply like average graduates; you have to network, hustle, and build up a stronger portfolio than your graduate peers
deepGem 8y ago
The geography matters. I did the Self driving car nanodegree and not having a US work permit pretty much took out all my chances. I did have an interview with Voyage but I didn't clear round 2 or 3 I don't remember.
- thanatropism 8y ago
  The elephant in the room is that there's a shortage of "self driving car engineers" because the whole thing is growing so fast.
wastedhours 8y ago
> At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not. Am intrigued by your comment, as my interpretation of what you want and what you're doing seem to be at odds with each other. My assumption is you want to get a paid developer role, whereas your side project seems to be satisfying personal curiosity (otherwise, you'd definitely already have an answer to the question of whether your Mac app would make a few bucks). The latter is immensely important in its own right, but quite likely won't solve the first problem itself (again, if it were to, you'd have a surer answer to whether it was likely to make money or not). I flamed out of university without a degree at all, but put myself in places to get a CMO role (which I ultimately hated, but still...) at a startup because I aligned my side projects with what I wanted from my career rather than just things I wanted to build. It's a hard choice, but it's one that probably has to be made. Also, your nanodegree looks to be unused as-is, with little link to the work you're currently doing (sure, it's an app, but Android/mobile to MacOS/desktop is about as far as you can stretch the "app" link) - how are you framing it with employers?
- povertyworld 8y ago
  I'm no longer interested in a paid developer role.
  - mullaneyk 8y ago
    If you’re still looking for paid work (dev or otherwise), reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to help in any way I can, i.e. with referrals or advice. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleenmullaney https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleenmullaney
leesec 8y ago
>For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. No it's not. There's explicitly a part of the article that asks if he was able to get a job without a degree. He does not have one.

kyle_martin1 8y ago

I used to do mobile development. You need a strong portfolio to compete. I had made around 6 apps (some my ideas and some for clients) when I got my first mobile job. Consider making some novel apps without any expectation of being paid. Nothing guarantees you a job. If you’re not hearing back...there’s got to be a logical reason. Be honest with yourself and come up with a list of 25 things that will give you an edge and start doing them. Just don’t give up! Regarding the education comment...I’m going to disagree with you there. Employers don’t care where you went to school. They care about what you’ve done in the past (doesn’t matter if it’s at work or on the side) and what you can bring to the table. I had to compete with people with PhDs for my current AV job but I got the job because of the whole package of skills that I bring rather than theoretical knowledge in a single niche topic.

Judgmentality 8y ago
> Employers don’t care where you went to school. This depends on the employer. Google is notorious for not only caring about your school, but your GPA. Also as someone who has looked at hundreds, if not thousands, of resumes over the years - the reality is you very quickly start to look for any sort of signal and schools are definitely something some (I would guess most) consider. Do I think it's unfair? Sure. But recruiters simply do not have the time to look into every applicant with any sort of detail.
- physcab 8y ago
  I’m not so sure anymore. I’ve worked at a couple FANGs and I have never looked at a candidates resume beyond their last job or two. I only look at their degree to calculate years of experience in my head. But ultimately we put faith in our interview process more than a resume. I would totally hire someone who has relevant experience than what their degrees were (or any), as long as they passed the normal interview gauntlet that everyone takes.
  - zaptheimpaler 8y ago
    Engineers typically don't care so much about school, but the first filter is recruiters who do. A recruiter has <10s to read your resume and has no technical knowledge, so a good school or FANG on your resume helps you pass their screen.
    - sh87 8y ago
      years of mostly pointless assignments, lectures and pre-test cramming coupled with thousands of hard earned dollars spent on getting <10s of attention from a recruiter. Feels harsh, strange and unproductive enough to be true.
- dmourati 8y ago
  No longer true at Google about degree/GPA.
- noitsnot 8y ago
  Let's say you get past recruiters and/or HR. You're sitting in a room full of potential coworkers who question how you wake up in the morning and put on your pants because they went to a four year school and have that degree. It's a club and you're not in it.
  - tylerhou 8y ago
    This is not the experience I had when interviewing at my current employer (or any employer I’ve interviewed at!) and I didn’t go to college.
dmortin 8y ago
> Consider making some novel apps without any expectation of being paid. This part is non-trivial, is it? Coming up with a new kind of app idea (which is useful, not just shows 3 twirling balls or something) is not easy. And doing the millionth todo app or something is not the same.
- sh87 8y ago
  If you were a novice painter/cook/carpenter/sculptor/singer/accountant/mechanic what would you include in a portfolio? Now, the portfolio exists to demonstrate a skill you posess. You'd look for established people and their works from your domain and copy them to study their methods, their style. Figure out and differentiate the core from the frills. Tweak, mix, combine, jam and fuse what you've learnt. Then you'd merge your favorite styles together to create your own, novel work. Repeat enough times and you have a solid portfolio. Unfortunately, the programming world is crippled with 'get rich quick' apps/websites/products. Most newbie programmers believe that unless they have a novel idea, they cannot and should not build an app or a website. That attitude sucks the life and joy out of learning anything including programming. I strongly urge you to copy, steal and be inspired by as many apps and websites as you can before going for novelty. What you will learn in the process far outweighs any commercial success that you can hope for. Good luck.

jammygit 8y ago

There's no better resume than a bunch of portfolio projects you've built (imho)

jehlakj 8y ago
That typically works when your works are mostly visual and the position takes that into account. Most hiring managers won’t bother reading a single line of code.
- jammygit 8y ago
  I wonder how helpful it would be to blog or make videos about them compares to just having the projects.

rahimnathwani 8y ago

"For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. I have a non-STEM degree." According to the OP's LinkedIn profile, he started his undergrad in Computer Engineering in 2015, started doing Udacity courses in 2017, and expects to complete his degree in 2020.

barry-cotter 8y ago

He hasn’t finished his degree > And I’m actually still attending my university online, to finish my Bachelor’s. I’ve stayed enrolled the whole time.

arvinsim 8y ago

> I think doing one of the javascript ones might have produced better job prospects. > Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not. Why not make your side project a javascript oriented one? Two birds with one stone.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

puranjay 8y ago

I see a nanodegree or coding skills for that matter as an addendum to your existing skills. The branches to your 'T' shaped skilltree. That said, you do have to adopt a non standard route to getting a job from a nanodegree. You can't apply like average graduates; you have to network, hustle, and build up a stronger portfolio than your graduate peers

deepGem 8y ago

The geography matters. I did the Self driving car nanodegree and not having a US work permit pretty much took out all my chances. I did have an interview with Voyage but I didn't clear round 2 or 3 I don't remember.

thanatropism 8y ago
The elephant in the room is that there's a shortage of "self driving car engineers" because the whole thing is growing so fast.

wastedhours 8y ago

> At this point, I'm resigned to indie development while I work a part time non-tech non-profit job to make rent. Currently working on a MacOS desktop app that might make a few bucks, but probably not. Am intrigued by your comment, as my interpretation of what you want and what you're doing seem to be at odds with each other. My assumption is you want to get a paid developer role, whereas your side project seems to be satisfying personal curiosity (otherwise, you'd definitely already have an answer to the question of whether your Mac app would make a few bucks). The latter is immensely important in its own right, but quite likely won't solve the first problem itself (again, if it were to, you'd have a surer answer to whether it was likely to make money or not). I flamed out of university without a degree at all, but put myself in places to get a CMO role (which I ultimately hated, but still...) at a startup because I aligned my side projects with what I wanted from my career rather than just things I wanted to build. It's a hard choice, but it's one that probably has to be made. Also, your nanodegree looks to be unused as-is, with little link to the work you're currently doing (sure, it's an app, but Android/mobile to MacOS/desktop is about as far as you can stretch the "app" link) - how are you framing it with employers?

povertyworld 8y ago
I'm no longer interested in a paid developer role.
- mullaneyk 8y ago
  If you’re still looking for paid work (dev or otherwise), reach out to me on LinkedIn. I'm happy to help in any way I can, i.e. with referrals or advice. https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleenmullaney https://www.linkedin.com/in/kathleenmullaney

leesec 8y ago

>For example, the article is ambiguous about whether the student finished his computer engineering degree at university or not. No it's not. There's explicitly a part of the article that asks if he was able to get a job without a degree. He does not have one.