6 ms·

"...an exclusive and default way to purchase and load apps on iOS" If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer ac

"...an exclusive and default way to purchase and load apps on iOS" If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer access to their own operating system" when that operating system represents a much smaller share of the market than the next biggest competitor.

GeekyBear 8y ago
Didn't we already go through this in the courts when game consoles like Nintendo, XBox, and PlayStation put the same restrictions on game developers?
- delinka 8y ago
  Honestly I don’t recall. Do you have any links I could read?
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    I think he is referring to the Tengen case.
- MBCook 8y ago
  Back in the NES era with licensing restrictions, yes. I believe it was Tengen vs Nintendo? Also Atari vs Activision? But the Switch, PS4, and XBox One ALL have closed app stores exactly the way Apple does. If Apple loses a lot of people will have to find a new business model.
  - p1necone 8y ago
    I would love game consoles to have third party stores. As it stands I almost never buy console games through the PSN store/xbox store/whatever because (at least with AAA titles) games remain at initial launch price way too long, and are usually more expensive than retail stores.
    - p1necone 8y ago
      Although, it isn't only limited to online console stores, some publishers are pretty terrible on PC too. As an example - in my region (New Zealand) Call of Duty Black Ops is still $99 on Steam, and that released in 2010... (Activision, you there? I still want to buy it but I can't justify that price for an 8 year old game, or even the half off sale price right now...)
  - ariwilson 8y ago
    You can buy digital codes to redeem games on those stores from third party retailers. Often at a discount.
    - MBCook 8y ago
      Really? I think I’ve only ever seen that for Steam/GOG.
      - ariwilson 8y ago
        Example: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dead-Redemption-Xbox-Digital/dp/B07G9WVK6K https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dead-Redemption-Xbox-Digital/dp/B...
        MBCook 8y ago
        I’ve seen the digital codes before, but that’s actually MORE expensive than disk. I assumed they weren’t allowed to sell at a discount
vatueil 8y ago
It's true that iOS has a smaller share of the market globally, including many parts of Europe, but this overshadows the fact that iOS is almost on par with Android in the United States (44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018), probably higher among affluent users, and the leading mobile operating system in other countries such as Britain: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... I feel this is often overlooked in discussions where users from certain areas where iOS is less prevalent don't understand the perspective of users from other regions where iOS is more popular.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  >(44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018)... ??? Doesn't that mean iOS has the minority market share?
  - delinka 8y ago
    A minority/majority distinction is unnecessary. If the market share is significant and can be shown to harm enough consumers (and especially if the behavior can be shown to harm even users of competitors' systems), then there still could be a decision in favor of consumers.
- zepto 8y ago
  10% lower than the next competitor, and less than half overall. Not a monopoly.
  - jp555 8y ago
    But definitely an iOS monopoly.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      And Nintendo, Somy, and MS have monopoles on their stores. Just like if you don’t like what one console offers you are free to buy another one, if you don’t like what’s available for iOS, you are free to buy an Android.
AnthonyMouse 8y ago
> If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer access to their own operating system" when that operating system represents a much smaller share of the market than the next biggest competitor. You're talking about two different markets, the devices themselves and the app distribution. Suppose there are many truck manufacturers and none has majority share, but only one makes diesel trucks. Then that company gets into the market for diesel fuel and makes it so that customers can't use any other provider's fuel in their trucks. They've just leveraged their diesel truck monopoly into a diesel fuel monopoly. Your argument is that they don't have a truck monopoly, because other people make lots of gasoline powered trucks and electric trucks etc., and truck buyers could reasonably choose them instead. Many of them do. But those aren't relevant when we're talking about the market for diesel fuel. You can't use gasoline in a diesel truck. You can't use an Android app on iOS or install iOS apps on an iPhone with Google Play.

GeekyBear 8y ago

Didn't we already go through this in the courts when game consoles like Nintendo, XBox, and PlayStation put the same restrictions on game developers?

delinka 8y ago
Honestly I don’t recall. Do you have any links I could read?
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  I think he is referring to the Tengen case.
MBCook 8y ago
Back in the NES era with licensing restrictions, yes. I believe it was Tengen vs Nintendo? Also Atari vs Activision? But the Switch, PS4, and XBox One ALL have closed app stores exactly the way Apple does. If Apple loses a lot of people will have to find a new business model.
- p1necone 8y ago
  I would love game consoles to have third party stores. As it stands I almost never buy console games through the PSN store/xbox store/whatever because (at least with AAA titles) games remain at initial launch price way too long, and are usually more expensive than retail stores.
  - p1necone 8y ago
    Although, it isn't only limited to online console stores, some publishers are pretty terrible on PC too. As an example - in my region (New Zealand) Call of Duty Black Ops is still $99 on Steam, and that released in 2010... (Activision, you there? I still want to buy it but I can't justify that price for an 8 year old game, or even the half off sale price right now...)
- ariwilson 8y ago
  You can buy digital codes to redeem games on those stores from third party retailers. Often at a discount.
  - MBCook 8y ago
    Really? I think I’ve only ever seen that for Steam/GOG.
    - ariwilson 8y ago
      Example: https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dead-Redemption-Xbox-Digital/dp/B07G9WVK6K https://www.amazon.com/Red-Dead-Redemption-Xbox-Digital/dp/B...
      - MBCook 8y ago
        I’ve seen the digital codes before, but that’s actually MORE expensive than disk. I assumed they weren’t allowed to sell at a discount

vatueil 8y ago

It's true that iOS has a smaller share of the market globally, including many parts of Europe, but this overshadows the fact that iOS is almost on par with Android in the United States (44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018), probably higher among affluent users, and the leading mobile operating system in other countries such as Britain: https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held-by-smartphone-platforms-in-the-united-states/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/266572/market-share-held... I feel this is often overlooked in discussions where users from certain areas where iOS is less prevalent don't understand the perspective of users from other regions where iOS is more popular.

bilbo0s 8y ago
>(44.3% to Android's 54.5% as of May 2018)... ??? Doesn't that mean iOS has the minority market share?
- delinka 8y ago
  A minority/majority distinction is unnecessary. If the market share is significant and can be shown to harm enough consumers (and especially if the behavior can be shown to harm even users of competitors' systems), then there still could be a decision in favor of consumers.
zepto 8y ago
10% lower than the next competitor, and less than half overall. Not a monopoly.
- jp555 8y ago
  But definitely an iOS monopoly.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    And Nintendo, Somy, and MS have monopoles on their stores. Just like if you don’t like what one console offers you are free to buy another one, if you don’t like what’s available for iOS, you are free to buy an Android.

AnthonyMouse 8y ago

> If the court allows the definition of 'trust' to include "a company gatekeeping developer access to their own operating system" when that operating system represents a much smaller share of the market than the next biggest competitor. You're talking about two different markets, the devices themselves and the app distribution. Suppose there are many truck manufacturers and none has majority share, but only one makes diesel trucks. Then that company gets into the market for diesel fuel and makes it so that customers can't use any other provider's fuel in their trucks. They've just leveraged their diesel truck monopoly into a diesel fuel monopoly. Your argument is that they don't have a truck monopoly, because other people make lots of gasoline powered trucks and electric trucks etc., and truck buyers could reasonably choose them instead. Many of them do. But those aren't relevant when we're talking about the market for diesel fuel. You can't use gasoline in a diesel truck. You can't use an Android app on iOS or install iOS apps on an iPhone with Google Play.