6 ms·

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials &

"the ’90s, that bizarre blip in American history where it seemed like we were living in an eternal present, the End of History" That's something millennials & later won't understand: 2000 was a mental barrier we couldn't really think past. Objectively, people may have addressed the next millennium's dates, but we just couldn't deeply believe we'd be living in what was always colloquially called "the future".

dana321 8y ago
Y2K had everyone spooked and everyone thought that all the machines would stop, looking back on it seems funny now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_ap...
- ctdonath 8y ago
  That threat was real, and an example of how concerted objective efforts could fix it. Unfortunately, many people seem to think a risk is only real if something goes wrong; successful mitigation seems to mean the risk wasn't real.
api 8y ago
I have a very different take. As someone who grew up in the 90s I draw the line at 9/11. That event ended the brief post cold war era of peace, prosperity, and optimism. We still have not recovered culturally from 9/11. The optimism of the 90s is literally unthinkable today. The terrorists won.
- ta_egdhs 8y ago
  idk why this is downvoted. the 90s is the period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terror. its the only time in living memory where there was no enemy. 9/11 absolutely changed the country. it was the start of militarized police, nationalistic displays, and 24/7 fear that have all been normalized today. Perhaps the terrorists didn't win (Bin Laden is dead and the house of Saud still stands) but we certainly lost.
  - api 8y ago
    Most of HN trends young (<=30) and maybe doesn't remember the before time. There was a general optimism and sense of freedom in the 90s that is just gone. We have continued to progress in many amazing ways, but I feel like it's on inertia. The living, growing, vibrant ideas of today are totalitarian and paranoid: the alt-right, the authoritarian left, nationalism, technocracy, neo-feudalism, etc. I think part of the popularity of 9/11 conspiracy theories comes from the deep intuition that something broke and never recovered. I think most of those theories are BS but the intuition is correct.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    Perhaps this is far too controversial a view for HN, and for many Americans, we'll see. The terrorists absolutely won. Least that's my perception as a non-American. Your first mistake was legitimising them as "the enemy" When the IRA were bombing Docklands, Manchester or Birmingham pubs we'd make a poor taste joke the next morning, walk past the wreckage and forget about it the day after that. When the Baader Meinhoff Group were killing public figures, and bombing Brits, Germans and Americans over in Germany they were treated as a bunch of insignificant extremists. Even by the Americans it seemed from news reports. There'd be a poor taste joke or two, and they'd be ignored. Much the same for other terrorist groups hijacking aircraft or killing people through history. "Don't deal with terrorists" was heard from every politician. Then came 11/9 and the "war on terror." So determined were your politicians to legitimise the terrorists it became a war. Against a legitimate target. Globally. So determined were you to preserve your "freedoms" that you built an apparatus of surveillance to ensure that freedom. Apparatus so far reaching that it is indistinguishable from an apparatus of oppression. Most other countries played along too in support, and built the same apparatus of oppression to preserve freedom. Not only did the USA lose, and the terrorists win, but the UK, France, Iraq, Malaysia etc lost too. So did freedom. No more bad taste joke the morning after and treating them as a bunch of irrelevant idiots unworthy of but the briefest air time (like I get the impression most Americans still do with a group like the Westborough Baptist Church), but an unwinnable war with a legitimate enemy and a leader, and endless analysis. Everyone except them, globally, lost.
    - zdragnar 8y ago
- benj111 8y ago
  Indeed. Add to that the new fangled world wide web, that would change everything for the better.
- ctdonath 8y ago
  You miss the point: it's not about drawing a line in the past, it's that we couldn't think past a date in the future. We didn't know society-changing events on 9/11/2001 would happen. We couldn't believe 1/1/2000 (and after) itself would happen, so mentally created a view of an eternal present where the 1990's wouldn't end ... 2000 & beyond were an unreachable future.
- brett40324 8y ago
  I definitely agree. I turned 18 in September just before 9/11. So, there's a very definite mental line in time drawn that year where everything since has vastly changed.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
agumonkey 8y ago
slightly related but for me 80s are always 20 years back

dana321 8y ago

Y2K had everyone spooked and everyone thought that all the machines would stop, looking back on it seems funny now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_apocalyptic_events https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dates_predicted_for_ap...

ctdonath 8y ago
That threat was real, and an example of how concerted objective efforts could fix it. Unfortunately, many people seem to think a risk is only real if something goes wrong; successful mitigation seems to mean the risk wasn't real.

api 8y ago

I have a very different take. As someone who grew up in the 90s I draw the line at 9/11. That event ended the brief post cold war era of peace, prosperity, and optimism. We still have not recovered culturally from 9/11. The optimism of the 90s is literally unthinkable today. The terrorists won.

ta_egdhs 8y ago
idk why this is downvoted. the 90s is the period between the end of the cold war and the start of the war on terror. its the only time in living memory where there was no enemy. 9/11 absolutely changed the country. it was the start of militarized police, nationalistic displays, and 24/7 fear that have all been normalized today. Perhaps the terrorists didn't win (Bin Laden is dead and the house of Saud still stands) but we certainly lost.
- api 8y ago
  Most of HN trends young (<=30) and maybe doesn't remember the before time. There was a general optimism and sense of freedom in the 90s that is just gone. We have continued to progress in many amazing ways, but I feel like it's on inertia. The living, growing, vibrant ideas of today are totalitarian and paranoid: the alt-right, the authoritarian left, nationalism, technocracy, neo-feudalism, etc. I think part of the popularity of 9/11 conspiracy theories comes from the deep intuition that something broke and never recovered. I think most of those theories are BS but the intuition is correct.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  Perhaps this is far too controversial a view for HN, and for many Americans, we'll see. The terrorists absolutely won. Least that's my perception as a non-American. Your first mistake was legitimising them as "the enemy" When the IRA were bombing Docklands, Manchester or Birmingham pubs we'd make a poor taste joke the next morning, walk past the wreckage and forget about it the day after that. When the Baader Meinhoff Group were killing public figures, and bombing Brits, Germans and Americans over in Germany they were treated as a bunch of insignificant extremists. Even by the Americans it seemed from news reports. There'd be a poor taste joke or two, and they'd be ignored. Much the same for other terrorist groups hijacking aircraft or killing people through history. "Don't deal with terrorists" was heard from every politician. Then came 11/9 and the "war on terror." So determined were your politicians to legitimise the terrorists it became a war. Against a legitimate target. Globally. So determined were you to preserve your "freedoms" that you built an apparatus of surveillance to ensure that freedom. Apparatus so far reaching that it is indistinguishable from an apparatus of oppression. Most other countries played along too in support, and built the same apparatus of oppression to preserve freedom. Not only did the USA lose, and the terrorists win, but the UK, France, Iraq, Malaysia etc lost too. So did freedom. No more bad taste joke the morning after and treating them as a bunch of irrelevant idiots unworthy of but the briefest air time (like I get the impression most Americans still do with a group like the Westborough Baptist Church), but an unwinnable war with a legitimate enemy and a leader, and endless analysis. Everyone except them, globally, lost.
  - zdragnar 8y ago
benj111 8y ago
Indeed. Add to that the new fangled world wide web, that would change everything for the better.
ctdonath 8y ago
You miss the point: it's not about drawing a line in the past, it's that we couldn't think past a date in the future. We didn't know society-changing events on 9/11/2001 would happen. We couldn't believe 1/1/2000 (and after) itself would happen, so mentally created a view of an eternal present where the 1990's wouldn't end ... 2000 & beyond were an unreachable future.
brett40324 8y ago
I definitely agree. I turned 18 in September just before 9/11. So, there's a very definite mental line in time drawn that year where everything since has vastly changed.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

agumonkey 8y ago

slightly related but for me 80s are always 20 years back