8 ms·

Almost every single comment in here is critical of Terry Gross’s advice. I have to wonder, does anyone here have a 40 year career as an interviewer and millions

Almost every single comment in here is critical of Terry Gross’s advice. I have to wonder, does anyone here have a 40 year career as an interviewer and millions of people tuning in to listen to them every week? In the face of uncomfortable advice it’s so easy to dig your heels in to your experience instead of thinking “maybe there’s something to learn here”.

icebraining 8y ago
But that's the thing: "talking to people" and "interviewing them" are not the same thing. It's not even clear whether Gross is actually talking about party conversations and such, despite what the article says. Also, results are not all that matters; you can be a critic of the methods even if they bring the desired outcome.
- iamben 8y ago
  I'm not sure I entirely agree. I think it's a bit like saying "steak is not the same as a hamburger" - they're not, but they're both beef and both a good meal. I think if you define interviewing in the strictest sense, then sure. But personally I find this all pretty applicable. I do far better in conversation (with strangers) when I apply most of this. One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was "nobody cares about you, but everyone loves speaking about themselves". If you can get someone to open up and _start_ talking, and you are genuinely curious without seemingly like you're looking for an opportunity to talk about yourself, in my experience that person goes away with a generally positive opinion of you. I suppose you could also argue that any conversation with someone new IS an interview - be it date, work, new friend. Ultimately you're checking as to whether you want a second encounter with that person, right?
  - scarejunba 8y ago
    Out of curiosity, have you actually opened with "tell me about yourself"? I imagine most of us converse by trying to learn about the other person, but specifically that phrase?
    - iamben 8y ago
      No, I'll try it though. After a small talk introduction I'll usually use (the fairly similar) "so what do you do with (/how do you spend) your days?!" - or sometimes "time" and sometimes "_like_ to do with". Generally depends who I'm talking to and what I know already. Asking about work seems to define the direction of the conversation, and some people don't work, which makes it a little awkward. Everyone does _something_ so this gives whoever you're talking to an opportunity to pick what they want to talk about - "I work in marketing" or "I'm trying to get my black belt in karate". Then you just starting picking around that topic and ever so often drop in a short annecdote or story of your own (followed by another question - "has that ever happened to you?!") to keep the conversation going.
      - scarejunba 8y ago
        What you describe is how most people do it. "Tell me about yourself" is something else entirely. I look forward to your description of how it goes with strangers.
        iamben 8y ago
        Respectfully, I don't think it is, and the tone of your reply suggests you assume it'd go badly. Other than being (perhaps) slightly more expansive as a question, I really don't get what the big deal is. It's an opener. I'll happily give it a go and I'm fairly certain it'll be fine. Edit: by badly, I mean badly for me. I'm getting a bunch of downvotes above - obviously this is just my opinion, based on my interactions with people over the last few years.
        shanghaiaway 8y ago
        I promise you that the people who down voted you have also experienced interpersonal interactions over the last few years.
        iamben 8y ago
jdboyd 8y ago
Terry Gross is an excellent interview and I enjoy her work very much. However, the advice claims to be how to have better conversations. I'm not convinced that interviewing and having better conversations are the same thing. Further, I think some of the advice here is really more advice about interviews, and thus it is fair to be critical of the advice in a different context. Most of the criticism is really only on using "Tell me about yourself" as an ice-breaker. If I don't like being asked that question, than it is entirely reasonable for me to wonder if it is the best opener to use in general social circumstances.
- porphyrogene 8y ago
  One who takes offense to the phrase "Tell me about yourself" does not have the ability to function as a member of society. Based on some of these comments you would think that asking the typical Hacker News commenter about the weather would result in a ten minute lecture on the increased efficiency of looking out the window as opposed to bothering one's peers with futile conversation. If you don't want to give an answer it's very easy to demur in a polite and conversationally enjoyable way. All of the conventional advice on getting people to like you emphasizes getting people to talk about themselves.
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    Does anyone ever ask you “tell me about yourself” verbatim in casual conversation between peers? I honestly find it hard to believe that this is normal. It sounds way too much like an interview question.
    - iamdave 8y ago
      Phrased exactly like that? Probably not, but I do ask "so what's your story?" as an ice breaker quite often when meeting people, but I have heard it. I'm a little astounded that so many find such an inquiry so abnormal.
    - devwastaken 8y ago
      It's actually a good question to get to know people sometimes. You don't phrase it that way, but people do like talking about themselves unless they're robots
johnchristopher 8y ago
Does Terry Gross get asked that question a lot as an ice-breaker ?
matwood 8y ago
Agreed. This advice also isn’t anything new. One of the key lessons of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” is to ask people about themselves.
will_brown 8y ago
People like charisma and wit. >Tell me about yourself? At best that question is a clear demonstration of lack of both and a plain vanilla diplomatic type question. At worst it tells me this person doesn’t care and is just waiting to be asked the same question to rattle off their prerehearsed answer which will no doubt incorporate some fine oneupmanship (in other words that questions tells me that person is just waiting for their time to talk). The only proper answer to such a question: “I live off the fat of the land, how about you?” Then as they struggle to begin their prerehearsed response, excuse yourself to a more interesting conversation.
- senthil_rajasek 8y ago
  "Ms. Gross brings a combination of empathy and rigorous preparation to the job. “I read, watch or listen to as much of the person’s work as possible..."
  - will_brown 8y ago
    I’m not disputing Ms. Gross’ talent as an interviewer, genuineness, or work ethic. And the question is appropriate for an interview, specifically because it’s diplomatic and open ended. Certainly when talking to people we won’t have the same resources and ability to research the person we speak with the same way Ms. Gross has with the persons she interviews. And in the context of “talking to people” I don’t think this particular question is going to make a good reflection on the asker. If you have literally nothing else to say, then fine, but again that typically shows lack of wit and charisma. I’d recommend starting with a personal observation of the person that is clearly meaningful to the person you engage, in which you have a guinuine interest.
mlevental 8y ago
I've noticed that hn on almost every topic is now hypercritical to the point of being satire - people outside of this thread (community?) gush non-stop about how charming and genial Terry Gross. here's something for the "cave dwellers" to ponder: do you think maybe the tone and body language with which you say something like "tell me about yourself" mediates the effect?
- enraged_camel 8y ago
  Indeed, in face-to-face interactions, more than 90% of the communication occurs non-verbally. So there's a big difference between taking a defensive posture, avoiding eye contact and saying "so tell me about yourself" vs. smiling, making eye contact and saying the same thing.
- DevX101 8y ago
  This has been a HackerNews phenomenon for years. The default stance of HackerNews is contrarian.
  - afarrell 8y ago
    Which is a genuinely useful stance in the case of products—pointing out why someone’s startup won’t work does them the service of laying out potential failure modes.
  - bostonpete 8y ago
    No it's not. (j/k, sorry) As a testament to this, I usually check the comments before clicking through to an article. As a result I virtually never click through to the article -- I just end up reading all the reasons it's wrong.
    - ianai 8y ago
      That suggests it’s a cultural meme in self service.
    - skwog 8y ago
      Tend to follow that pattern too. Also reminds me of an anecdote. Talking with a tech VP from a telco recently, I offer an opinion to advance the discussion and his response was simply “No, that’s wrong, you’re so wrong.” Period, full stop. End of discussion, no explanation, no offer of what direction he might agree with. All that mattered was that I was wrong and that he had the right answer. Great talk.
SmirthsDAC 8y ago
So people should ignore a counterargument that makes sense to them because Terry Gross has more experience? We should blindly follow authority in spite of our own reasoning abilities? I'm always disappointed when these dismissive appeal to authority ad-hominems [1] are not only posted on HN comments but voted to the very top. These types of comments take no effort and don't add any information to the discussion. Isn't HN supposed to be better than that? Why not instead respond to the actual specific arguments people have put up in objection to Terry Gross's advice? Then the insufficiency of her experience is plain to see: She has 40+ years of experience indeed, but in a relatively narrow form of conversational interview, and commenters here are rightfully pointing out that her advice doesn't generalize. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html > "DH1. Ad Hominem. ... Saying that an author lacks the authority to write about a topic is a variant of ad hominem—and a particularly useless sort, because good ideas often come from outsiders. The question is whether the author is correct or not. If his lack of authority caused him to make mistakes, point those out. And if it didn't, it's not a problem."
0x445442 8y ago
Ah, ah, ah... no appeals appeal to authority here. Sorry, couldn’t resist a jab at the HN community.

icebraining 8y ago

But that's the thing: "talking to people" and "interviewing them" are not the same thing. It's not even clear whether Gross is actually talking about party conversations and such, despite what the article says. Also, results are not all that matters; you can be a critic of the methods even if they bring the desired outcome.

iamben 8y ago
I'm not sure I entirely agree. I think it's a bit like saying "steak is not the same as a hamburger" - they're not, but they're both beef and both a good meal. I think if you define interviewing in the strictest sense, then sure. But personally I find this all pretty applicable. I do far better in conversation (with strangers) when I apply most of this. One of the best pieces of advice I was ever given was "nobody cares about you, but everyone loves speaking about themselves". If you can get someone to open up and _start_ talking, and you are genuinely curious without seemingly like you're looking for an opportunity to talk about yourself, in my experience that person goes away with a generally positive opinion of you. I suppose you could also argue that any conversation with someone new IS an interview - be it date, work, new friend. Ultimately you're checking as to whether you want a second encounter with that person, right?
- scarejunba 8y ago
  Out of curiosity, have you actually opened with "tell me about yourself"? I imagine most of us converse by trying to learn about the other person, but specifically that phrase?
  - iamben 8y ago
    No, I'll try it though. After a small talk introduction I'll usually use (the fairly similar) "so what do you do with (/how do you spend) your days?!" - or sometimes "time" and sometimes "_like_ to do with". Generally depends who I'm talking to and what I know already. Asking about work seems to define the direction of the conversation, and some people don't work, which makes it a little awkward. Everyone does _something_ so this gives whoever you're talking to an opportunity to pick what they want to talk about - "I work in marketing" or "I'm trying to get my black belt in karate". Then you just starting picking around that topic and ever so often drop in a short annecdote or story of your own (followed by another question - "has that ever happened to you?!") to keep the conversation going.
    - scarejunba 8y ago
      What you describe is how most people do it. "Tell me about yourself" is something else entirely. I look forward to your description of how it goes with strangers.
      - iamben 8y ago
        Respectfully, I don't think it is, and the tone of your reply suggests you assume it'd go badly. Other than being (perhaps) slightly more expansive as a question, I really don't get what the big deal is. It's an opener. I'll happily give it a go and I'm fairly certain it'll be fine. Edit: by badly, I mean badly for me. I'm getting a bunch of downvotes above - obviously this is just my opinion, based on my interactions with people over the last few years.
        shanghaiaway 8y ago
        I promise you that the people who down voted you have also experienced interpersonal interactions over the last few years.
        iamben 8y ago

jdboyd 8y ago

Terry Gross is an excellent interview and I enjoy her work very much. However, the advice claims to be how to have better conversations. I'm not convinced that interviewing and having better conversations are the same thing. Further, I think some of the advice here is really more advice about interviews, and thus it is fair to be critical of the advice in a different context. Most of the criticism is really only on using "Tell me about yourself" as an ice-breaker. If I don't like being asked that question, than it is entirely reasonable for me to wonder if it is the best opener to use in general social circumstances.

porphyrogene 8y ago
One who takes offense to the phrase "Tell me about yourself" does not have the ability to function as a member of society. Based on some of these comments you would think that asking the typical Hacker News commenter about the weather would result in a ten minute lecture on the increased efficiency of looking out the window as opposed to bothering one's peers with futile conversation. If you don't want to give an answer it's very easy to demur in a polite and conversationally enjoyable way. All of the conventional advice on getting people to like you emphasizes getting people to talk about themselves.
- umanwizard 8y ago
  Does anyone ever ask you “tell me about yourself” verbatim in casual conversation between peers? I honestly find it hard to believe that this is normal. It sounds way too much like an interview question.
  - iamdave 8y ago
    Phrased exactly like that? Probably not, but I do ask "so what's your story?" as an ice breaker quite often when meeting people, but I have heard it. I'm a little astounded that so many find such an inquiry so abnormal.
  - devwastaken 8y ago
    It's actually a good question to get to know people sometimes. You don't phrase it that way, but people do like talking about themselves unless they're robots

johnchristopher 8y ago

Does Terry Gross get asked that question a lot as an ice-breaker ?

matwood 8y ago

Agreed. This advice also isn’t anything new. One of the key lessons of “How to Win Friends and Influence People” is to ask people about themselves.

will_brown 8y ago

People like charisma and wit. >Tell me about yourself? At best that question is a clear demonstration of lack of both and a plain vanilla diplomatic type question. At worst it tells me this person doesn’t care and is just waiting to be asked the same question to rattle off their prerehearsed answer which will no doubt incorporate some fine oneupmanship (in other words that questions tells me that person is just waiting for their time to talk). The only proper answer to such a question: “I live off the fat of the land, how about you?” Then as they struggle to begin their prerehearsed response, excuse yourself to a more interesting conversation.

senthil_rajasek 8y ago
"Ms. Gross brings a combination of empathy and rigorous preparation to the job. “I read, watch or listen to as much of the person’s work as possible..."
- will_brown 8y ago
  I’m not disputing Ms. Gross’ talent as an interviewer, genuineness, or work ethic. And the question is appropriate for an interview, specifically because it’s diplomatic and open ended. Certainly when talking to people we won’t have the same resources and ability to research the person we speak with the same way Ms. Gross has with the persons she interviews. And in the context of “talking to people” I don’t think this particular question is going to make a good reflection on the asker. If you have literally nothing else to say, then fine, but again that typically shows lack of wit and charisma. I’d recommend starting with a personal observation of the person that is clearly meaningful to the person you engage, in which you have a guinuine interest.

mlevental 8y ago

I've noticed that hn on almost every topic is now hypercritical to the point of being satire - people outside of this thread (community?) gush non-stop about how charming and genial Terry Gross. here's something for the "cave dwellers" to ponder: do you think maybe the tone and body language with which you say something like "tell me about yourself" mediates the effect?

enraged_camel 8y ago
Indeed, in face-to-face interactions, more than 90% of the communication occurs non-verbally. So there's a big difference between taking a defensive posture, avoiding eye contact and saying "so tell me about yourself" vs. smiling, making eye contact and saying the same thing.
DevX101 8y ago
This has been a HackerNews phenomenon for years. The default stance of HackerNews is contrarian.
- afarrell 8y ago
  Which is a genuinely useful stance in the case of products—pointing out why someone’s startup won’t work does them the service of laying out potential failure modes.
- bostonpete 8y ago
  No it's not. (j/k, sorry) As a testament to this, I usually check the comments before clicking through to an article. As a result I virtually never click through to the article -- I just end up reading all the reasons it's wrong.
  - ianai 8y ago
    That suggests it’s a cultural meme in self service.
  - skwog 8y ago
    Tend to follow that pattern too. Also reminds me of an anecdote. Talking with a tech VP from a telco recently, I offer an opinion to advance the discussion and his response was simply “No, that’s wrong, you’re so wrong.” Period, full stop. End of discussion, no explanation, no offer of what direction he might agree with. All that mattered was that I was wrong and that he had the right answer. Great talk.

SmirthsDAC 8y ago

So people should ignore a counterargument that makes sense to them because Terry Gross has more experience? We should blindly follow authority in spite of our own reasoning abilities? I'm always disappointed when these dismissive appeal to authority ad-hominems [1] are not only posted on HN comments but voted to the very top. These types of comments take no effort and don't add any information to the discussion. Isn't HN supposed to be better than that? Why not instead respond to the actual specific arguments people have put up in objection to Terry Gross's advice? Then the insufficiency of her experience is plain to see: She has 40+ years of experience indeed, but in a relatively narrow form of conversational interview, and commenters here are rightfully pointing out that her advice doesn't generalize. [1] http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html http://www.paulgraham.com/disagree.html > "DH1. Ad Hominem. ... Saying that an author lacks the authority to write about a topic is a variant of ad hominem—and a particularly useless sort, because good ideas often come from outsiders. The question is whether the author is correct or not. If his lack of authority caused him to make mistakes, point those out. And if it didn't, it's not a problem."

0x445442 8y ago

Ah, ah, ah... no appeals appeal to authority here. Sorry, couldn’t resist a jab at the HN community.