14 ms·

Cameroon’s President takes Swiss vacations as his country grapples with crises

92 points by jkuria 8y ago

client4 8y ago
Non Paywall link: https://outline.com/http://www.wsj.com/articles/where-does-the-lion-sleep-tonight-genevas-intercontinental-hotel-1541368940 https://outline.com/http://www.wsj.com/articles/where-does-t...
onetimemanytime 8y ago
I'd bet he's worth more that ALL US Congress and Senate persons--combined. Want a license for mobile phone network? It's cost you $50 Million in cash and 33% of the company. Buying arms? 30% goes to me. Want permission to open factory...and so on. The entire economy is controlled by these types, pay up or go to jail /close down shop. His $600K salary serves just as the seed to launder. Buy land in x place and surprise...2 years later land is valued 20x more as an airport will be there. Now he has 20x the money invested to try the same. Rinse repeat. They are also "lucky" with business etc
- kayoone 8y ago
  Even then that salary is nothing to sneeze at for a head of state. I believe Angela Merkel makes ~300k EUR in salary.
  - onetimemanytime 8y ago
    I agree, but the 3rd world countries would save a fortune if they paid their top leader $1Million a year and $100K to ministers provided they don't steal. Road costs $1.2 Billion? $200 MILLION to me, make the road a little narrower and pour x cm less asphalt. Buying and selling electricity? 20% to the leader. They are shameless and they know how to keep power, they let those downstream wet their beak too. But ultimately they know that they have to have clean cash. I make $600K and spend just $50k a year so $550K is invested year after year. No matter what, I can keep the $xx that derived from that. The stolen money is in secret accounts, companies, in other people's names etc. Not always easy to get a hold or keep the state away.
    - jlg23 8y ago
      Not sure whether I prefer your description or the more elaborate scheme of "Road costs $1.2Billion? Have my brother-in-law build it and my cousin will build you a house for almost free on land you can buy for really cheap from a childhood friend of mine!" It's not that the 1st world is less corrupt, it's just that some schemes are more evolved.
      - onetimemanytime 8y ago
        Nope, the real money is with %. States, even poorer one have billion dollar budgets. But even the favorite contractors, after dividing the money as per instructions, have to spend money on reelecting Dear Leader. They established autocracies get complacent and sloppy and don't care to launder the money. Who's gonna check? A smart way would be to bill for consulting /subcontracting work and pay taxes on that
      - barry-cotter 8y ago
        If you honestly think that the first world is no less corrupt you need to travel more. Switzerland is very different from Turkey, and Turkey’s very different from Eritrea.
        jlg23 8y ago
        I will try to do that, in between my permanent traveling that I have been doing for a few years now. Any hints who might provide a more correct picture than the employees of UN, GIZ, Red Cross, Medicines sans Frontieres etc give over and over again? Try to find a normal priced taxi as a white person in Haiti: 5 minute drive = $100. Or "You give me $150, I give you a receipt over $300." This scam was brought to you by... drumroll the UN! (It's a nice way to make one or two additional salaries while on an "educational visit").
        barry-cotter 8y ago
        Forgive me for assuming someone with such odd views could only have come by them through lack of experience. Obviously highly biased experience works just as well. Opportunity makes thieves, as the Germans say. You’re using an organisation with close to zero effective oversight, that is without exaggeration a law to itself, and which for political reasons has many staff from really corrupt countries as an example of corruption. The UN is not clean and no one who knows anything about it thinks it’s clean. For similar reasons aid organisations are also not paragons of probity. They work in poor, corrupt countries and they have access to both budgets and people who are willing and eager to get some of that money by helping them defraud their employers. What does this prove about corruption in more developed countries? Either very little or that systems are important. In Sweden your political career can end for putting hundreds of dollars of private expenses on a ministerial card. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-11-11-9511110090-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-11-11-951111... In Ireland you can die rich through corruption after having been prime minister, never having been charged with anything. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland And petty corruption in either country is much less than anything aid workers deal with regularly, basically absent. Living in China has made me far more cynical and accepting of the fact that corruption happens all the time but I know perfectly well that petty corruption is very limited in Ireland, my home country. Interference in civil service exams or school leaving exams is unremarkable in China and would bring down a government in Ireland. The difference in corruption between developed, developing and undeveloped countries is so large that it’s not just a difference in quantity but in kind.
blumomo 8y ago
Ask yourself a few questions: - why can a president be the president for 36 years in a country rich of natural resources while the people never profit from it? - why does French army go straight to Mali (not far from Cameroon BTW) if there's a terrorist threat? - why can't whole West Africa not print their own money (called FCFA) and why is a single European country however permitted to print their money for millions and billions in licenses? - why is DR of Congo the materially richest country on Earth but has most of the conflicts and the poorest of the poorest population? - why was Gaddafi chased and killed by non-African? - why is China gifting huge buildings and communication systems to African Union (check out yesterday's HN)? - or to put it more simply: who is profiting at the end? Is it really Paul Biya?
- mpweiher 8y ago
  > in a country rich of natural resources while the people never profit from it? Exactly because of that. When a country is rich in resources, the population isn't needed. See: The Resource Curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
  - blumomo 8y ago
    You're making a good point. However it's not "exactly because of that", the Wikipedia article also states: > Most experts believe the resource curse is not universal or inevitable, but affects certain types of countries or regions under certain conditions. It's not only the natural richness. So let's look into all of the conditions. And who establishes those conditions (see my questions above).
    - quickthrower2 8y ago
      Alaska is a counterexample
      - bengaluru 8y ago
        Norway seems to have done fine
mjfl 8y ago
Is this really new to anyone? I feel like this is pretty typical African dictator behavior.
perseusprime11 8y ago
Sounds like he is the source of crisis ;)
monster_group 8y ago
When Cameroonian president does it, it sounds awful and worth reporting, however when US President spends $1-3 million for his Maro Lago visits almost every weekend - nobody seems to care. A similar headline can be written regarding the US president - "While his country grapples with gun violence, opioid crisis, homelessness, US president spends $1-3 million on weekend visits to his Maro Lago resort."

92 points by jkuria 8y ago

Non Paywall link: https://outline.com/http://www.wsj.com/articles/where-does-the-lion-sleep-tonight-genevas-intercontinental-hotel-1541368940 https://outline.com/http://www.wsj.com/articles/where-does-t...

onetimemanytime 8y ago

I'd bet he's worth more that ALL US Congress and Senate persons--combined. Want a license for mobile phone network? It's cost you $50 Million in cash and 33% of the company. Buying arms? 30% goes to me. Want permission to open factory...and so on. The entire economy is controlled by these types, pay up or go to jail /close down shop. His $600K salary serves just as the seed to launder. Buy land in x place and surprise...2 years later land is valued 20x more as an airport will be there. Now he has 20x the money invested to try the same. Rinse repeat. They are also "lucky" with business etc

kayoone 8y ago
Even then that salary is nothing to sneeze at for a head of state. I believe Angela Merkel makes ~300k EUR in salary.
- onetimemanytime 8y ago
  I agree, but the 3rd world countries would save a fortune if they paid their top leader $1Million a year and $100K to ministers provided they don't steal. Road costs $1.2 Billion? $200 MILLION to me, make the road a little narrower and pour x cm less asphalt. Buying and selling electricity? 20% to the leader. They are shameless and they know how to keep power, they let those downstream wet their beak too. But ultimately they know that they have to have clean cash. I make $600K and spend just $50k a year so $550K is invested year after year. No matter what, I can keep the $xx that derived from that. The stolen money is in secret accounts, companies, in other people's names etc. Not always easy to get a hold or keep the state away.
  - jlg23 8y ago
    Not sure whether I prefer your description or the more elaborate scheme of "Road costs $1.2Billion? Have my brother-in-law build it and my cousin will build you a house for almost free on land you can buy for really cheap from a childhood friend of mine!" It's not that the 1st world is less corrupt, it's just that some schemes are more evolved.
    - onetimemanytime 8y ago
      Nope, the real money is with %. States, even poorer one have billion dollar budgets. But even the favorite contractors, after dividing the money as per instructions, have to spend money on reelecting Dear Leader. They established autocracies get complacent and sloppy and don't care to launder the money. Who's gonna check? A smart way would be to bill for consulting /subcontracting work and pay taxes on that
    - barry-cotter 8y ago
      If you honestly think that the first world is no less corrupt you need to travel more. Switzerland is very different from Turkey, and Turkey’s very different from Eritrea.
      - jlg23 8y ago
        I will try to do that, in between my permanent traveling that I have been doing for a few years now. Any hints who might provide a more correct picture than the employees of UN, GIZ, Red Cross, Medicines sans Frontieres etc give over and over again? Try to find a normal priced taxi as a white person in Haiti: 5 minute drive = $100. Or "You give me $150, I give you a receipt over $300." This scam was brought to you by... drumroll the UN! (It's a nice way to make one or two additional salaries while on an "educational visit").
        barry-cotter 8y ago
        Forgive me for assuming someone with such odd views could only have come by them through lack of experience. Obviously highly biased experience works just as well. Opportunity makes thieves, as the Germans say. You’re using an organisation with close to zero effective oversight, that is without exaggeration a law to itself, and which for political reasons has many staff from really corrupt countries as an example of corruption. The UN is not clean and no one who knows anything about it thinks it’s clean. For similar reasons aid organisations are also not paragons of probity. They work in poor, corrupt countries and they have access to both budgets and people who are willing and eager to get some of that money by helping them defraud their employers. What does this prove about corruption in more developed countries? Either very little or that systems are important. In Sweden your political career can end for putting hundreds of dollars of private expenses on a ministerial card. https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-11-11-9511110090-story.html https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1995-11-11-951111... In Ireland you can die rich through corruption after having been prime minister, never having been charged with anything. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland https://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/dec/20/ireland And petty corruption in either country is much less than anything aid workers deal with regularly, basically absent. Living in China has made me far more cynical and accepting of the fact that corruption happens all the time but I know perfectly well that petty corruption is very limited in Ireland, my home country. Interference in civil service exams or school leaving exams is unremarkable in China and would bring down a government in Ireland. The difference in corruption between developed, developing and undeveloped countries is so large that it’s not just a difference in quantity but in kind.

blumomo 8y ago

Ask yourself a few questions: - why can a president be the president for 36 years in a country rich of natural resources while the people never profit from it? - why does French army go straight to Mali (not far from Cameroon BTW) if there's a terrorist threat? - why can't whole West Africa not print their own money (called FCFA) and why is a single European country however permitted to print their money for millions and billions in licenses? - why is DR of Congo the materially richest country on Earth but has most of the conflicts and the poorest of the poorest population? - why was Gaddafi chased and killed by non-African? - why is China gifting huge buildings and communication systems to African Union (check out yesterday's HN)? - or to put it more simply: who is profiting at the end? Is it really Paul Biya?

mpweiher 8y ago
> in a country rich of natural resources while the people never profit from it? Exactly because of that. When a country is rich in resources, the population isn't needed. See: The Resource Curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resource_curse
- blumomo 8y ago
  You're making a good point. However it's not "exactly because of that", the Wikipedia article also states: > Most experts believe the resource curse is not universal or inevitable, but affects certain types of countries or regions under certain conditions. It's not only the natural richness. So let's look into all of the conditions. And who establishes those conditions (see my questions above).
  - quickthrower2 8y ago
    Alaska is a counterexample
    - bengaluru 8y ago
      Norway seems to have done fine

mjfl 8y ago

Is this really new to anyone? I feel like this is pretty typical African dictator behavior.

perseusprime11 8y ago

Sounds like he is the source of crisis ;)

monster_group 8y ago

When Cameroonian president does it, it sounds awful and worth reporting, however when US President spends $1-3 million for his Maro Lago visits almost every weekend - nobody seems to care. A similar headline can be written regarding the US president - "While his country grapples with gun violence, opioid crisis, homelessness, US president spends $1-3 million on weekend visits to his Maro Lago resort."