4 ms·

Marxist, so even more in favor of a ruling class above all.

by tootahe45 8y ago

andrepd 8y ago
I know you're just trying to be snarky, but how does that make any sense?
- lake99 8y ago
  I guess it's a reference to George Orwell's "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
- bongo662 8y ago
  Probably the idea that instead of class divide by wealth it would be class divide on political hierarchy (which would undoubtly divide on wealth as well)
- manfredo 8y ago
  In command economies, someone needs to do the commanding. Unsurprisingly, the revolutionaries that install such systems often choose themselves for that role.
  - emmelaich 8y ago
    Yes, the Left is the ruling class. Or the establishment if you like.
- emmelaich 8y ago
  Maybe a reference to collectivization in Soviet Russia. The peasants did not go willingly.
- xcjones 8y ago
  Academia is one of the few professions that do well in communist societies. Also in Western societies, they benefit from the state giving them other people's money. So it's easy and self-serving for an academic to be a socialist.
  - fwn 8y ago
    This is very wrong, assuming that the concept of academia is to have any scientific meaning. We can see it, for example, in the GDR, the former East of Germany where social sciences basically died. At the very same time, West-Germany developed a hugely influential discourse (...with a lot of Marxists, despite all the tensions). One could say that specific individuals from academia might profit from having symbolic capital to convert into political power, but that's hardly an idea that could be universally applied.
    - fdrg 8y ago
      This is not wrong at all. Compared to other professions, university-employed academics did well. How is it controversial that it is easier for someone who is directly employed by the state to be a socialist? You mention Marxist discourse in West Germany. It was easy for Adorno to be a socialist, because all he could do was talk in a convoluted, content-free manner. Celibidache (who actually did something), called him the biggest windbag of the 20th century.
dempseye 8y ago
This sounds pithy, but is inaccurate. Marxists (in particular Leninists, because Marxism is a broad church) think that there is a ruling class, that in capitalist societies the ruling class is the minority of owners of capital, and that, in order to transition to a classless society, the capitalist ruling class needs to be replaced temporarily by a ruling class composed of people with the interests of the working class in mind. The purpose of this period of working class rule is to eradicate the capitalist class and its ideology (not necessarily through violence, although in practice what ruling class yields to another without compulsion?), and develop the productive forces of the society in order to enable communism. This last point is one of the big things that distinguishes Lenin's theories from Marx's, because Marx thought that revolution would naturally arise in the most advanced technological societies once the industrial base necessary for a transition to communism was already pretty much in place. As we know, the revolutions occurred in places with a lower level of development, thus requiring this theoretical modification and extending the period of rule by the working class beyond the brief duration that Marx envisaged. The USSR, while it existed, always said they were "building socialism" and never said they had arrived at the destination, which is a classless society. The PRC says that it is "building socialism" and that the process might take a hundred generations. The purpose of their rule, according to their own theoretical framework, is to eventually give it up. So no, Marxists are not "even more in favour of a ruling class above all."

Marxist, so even more in favor of a ruling class above all.

andrepd 8y ago

I know you're just trying to be snarky, but how does that make any sense?

lake99 8y ago
I guess it's a reference to George Orwell's "All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others".
bongo662 8y ago
Probably the idea that instead of class divide by wealth it would be class divide on political hierarchy (which would undoubtly divide on wealth as well)
manfredo 8y ago
In command economies, someone needs to do the commanding. Unsurprisingly, the revolutionaries that install such systems often choose themselves for that role.
- emmelaich 8y ago
  Yes, the Left is the ruling class. Or the establishment if you like.
emmelaich 8y ago
Maybe a reference to collectivization in Soviet Russia. The peasants did not go willingly.
xcjones 8y ago
Academia is one of the few professions that do well in communist societies. Also in Western societies, they benefit from the state giving them other people's money. So it's easy and self-serving for an academic to be a socialist.
- fwn 8y ago
  This is very wrong, assuming that the concept of academia is to have any scientific meaning. We can see it, for example, in the GDR, the former East of Germany where social sciences basically died. At the very same time, West-Germany developed a hugely influential discourse (...with a lot of Marxists, despite all the tensions). One could say that specific individuals from academia might profit from having symbolic capital to convert into political power, but that's hardly an idea that could be universally applied.
  - fdrg 8y ago
    This is not wrong at all. Compared to other professions, university-employed academics did well. How is it controversial that it is easier for someone who is directly employed by the state to be a socialist? You mention Marxist discourse in West Germany. It was easy for Adorno to be a socialist, because all he could do was talk in a convoluted, content-free manner. Celibidache (who actually did something), called him the biggest windbag of the 20th century.

dempseye 8y ago

This sounds pithy, but is inaccurate. Marxists (in particular Leninists, because Marxism is a broad church) think that there is a ruling class, that in capitalist societies the ruling class is the minority of owners of capital, and that, in order to transition to a classless society, the capitalist ruling class needs to be replaced temporarily by a ruling class composed of people with the interests of the working class in mind. The purpose of this period of working class rule is to eradicate the capitalist class and its ideology (not necessarily through violence, although in practice what ruling class yields to another without compulsion?), and develop the productive forces of the society in order to enable communism. This last point is one of the big things that distinguishes Lenin's theories from Marx's, because Marx thought that revolution would naturally arise in the most advanced technological societies once the industrial base necessary for a transition to communism was already pretty much in place. As we know, the revolutions occurred in places with a lower level of development, thus requiring this theoretical modification and extending the period of rule by the working class beyond the brief duration that Marx envisaged. The USSR, while it existed, always said they were "building socialism" and never said they had arrived at the destination, which is a classless society. The PRC says that it is "building socialism" and that the process might take a hundred generations. The purpose of their rule, according to their own theoretical framework, is to eventually give it up. So no, Marxists are not "even more in favour of a ruling class above all."