4 ms·

At some point, there has to be a standard to which roofs are built (including wiring and power ports) such that you can just buy shingles and put them in or rep

by manmal 8y ago

At some point, there has to be a standard to which roofs are built (including wiring and power ports) such that you can just buy shingles and put them in or replace from the inside. Just cut the middle men and installation costs.

DubiousPusher 8y ago
I hate to be a bummer but based on the way the construction industry works, that's almost certainly not going to happen. For example, in the U.S. most plumbing jobs fall under a bevy of regulations and yet tasks as simple as changing a faucet can frequently lead to issues like unmatched pipe diameters or thead types. We've had 100 years to standardize that and it's still a mess. You literally can't even just go buy a garden hose and know for sure it's going to fit your exterior faucet. Electrical is arguably the most regulated, standards based and straight forward aspect of construction and even that varies a great deal based on the electrician and equipment. A rigorous standards based construction industry would be amazing. We could design electrical systems that could be installed by a novice with almost no risk of danger or failure. Homeowners could change luminares just plugging them in and attaching them to an electric box toolesly. We could have plug and play water appliances. Damn it would be magical but again I'm fairly certain that's just not going to happen. Edit: Above I indicated that the construction industry doesn't operate on "rigorous standards". That's not really true. There are actually very good science based standards for most construction tasks. It's more of a problem that the industry doesn't really focus on making future work on a structure low cost. And it makes very little effort to increase accessibility by creating more consumer facing equipment and tools.
- azernik 8y ago
  This is, I assume, because standards and regulation are aimed more at safety than at ease of maintenance/modification?
  - akiselev 8y ago
    The majority of construction regulations I've run into are relatively flexible. It's expensive but if you want to try out a new material or technique, the path to validating it and getting it approved is well defined. The problem is that few construction companies operate at that kind of scale and outside of churches, flagship venues (i.e. Disney hall), and palaces there just isn't enough money to develop new technologies.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- manmal 8y ago
  That says a lot about the US. In Europe, you can buy only one type of garden hose because there is only one kind of port. If the EU would introduce a new standard to which roofs have to be built, then people will start using it within 3 years. And they will benefit a lot from that standard, so you will think twice before buying a new roof for 20k+ and not buy from the companies that keep to this standard. Also don’t underestimate the power of adapters. I think you also conflate the way which something is built with the specification it is built against - like interfaces vs implementation details. If you tell companies to build a certain kind of roof, with ports and wiring, then they will not receive any money if they don’t meet your spec. They are free to use the kind of wood, nails, wires (as long as thick enough) that they like, and this is where they can compete against each other.
  - Baeocystin 8y ago
    Perhaps the parent comment has had some bad luck, but I've lived in a half-dozen US states, and have never seen any garden hose tap that was different than the standard set in the 60s. FWIW. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hose https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hose
    - DubiousPusher 8y ago
      Garden faucets in the U.S. can be 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 or 3/4 inches. They can have a course thread or if a backflow preventer is reuired in your muni, they have a fine thread.
      - Baeocystin 8y ago
        I've seen hoses with all of those diameters, but they've all had the same standard fitting size at the ends. Same with the backflow preventers- all the normal course threads. Now I'm genuinely curious, what state are you in? (not being obstinate, I really am just curious!)
        DubiousPusher 8y ago
amluto 8y ago
If you can design a roof from which a shingle can be replaced from the inside, the roof doesn't leak when exposed to wind-driven rain, the roof can hold your weight, and the cost isn't hilariously high, I'll be impressed. Also, if you stick a power port on your roof and you live in an area with lots of lightning, I'll stay away from your house.
- manmal 8y ago
  Basically every window is opened and can be replaced from the inside. How is that different? Regarding lightning, IDK how the Tesla roof solved this, but they obviously did.
  - amluto 8y ago
    Have you ever seen a roof built? There’s a roof deck, and shingles of some sort are nailed in from above in a specific order. In many installations, there is a weatherproof barrier between the roof deck and the shingles. If you want to replace a single shingle in the middle, you do it carefully, and you may need a special fastener.
    - manmal 8y ago
      That’s how they are now built, yes. Cars looked very much different 100 years ago, too.

by manmal 8y ago

DubiousPusher 8y ago

I hate to be a bummer but based on the way the construction industry works, that's almost certainly not going to happen. For example, in the U.S. most plumbing jobs fall under a bevy of regulations and yet tasks as simple as changing a faucet can frequently lead to issues like unmatched pipe diameters or thead types. We've had 100 years to standardize that and it's still a mess. You literally can't even just go buy a garden hose and know for sure it's going to fit your exterior faucet. Electrical is arguably the most regulated, standards based and straight forward aspect of construction and even that varies a great deal based on the electrician and equipment. A rigorous standards based construction industry would be amazing. We could design electrical systems that could be installed by a novice with almost no risk of danger or failure. Homeowners could change luminares just plugging them in and attaching them to an electric box toolesly. We could have plug and play water appliances. Damn it would be magical but again I'm fairly certain that's just not going to happen. Edit: Above I indicated that the construction industry doesn't operate on "rigorous standards". That's not really true. There are actually very good science based standards for most construction tasks. It's more of a problem that the industry doesn't really focus on making future work on a structure low cost. And it makes very little effort to increase accessibility by creating more consumer facing equipment and tools.

azernik 8y ago
This is, I assume, because standards and regulation are aimed more at safety than at ease of maintenance/modification?
- akiselev 8y ago
  The majority of construction regulations I've run into are relatively flexible. It's expensive but if you want to try out a new material or technique, the path to validating it and getting it approved is well defined. The problem is that few construction companies operate at that kind of scale and outside of churches, flagship venues (i.e. Disney hall), and palaces there just isn't enough money to develop new technologies.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
manmal 8y ago
That says a lot about the US. In Europe, you can buy only one type of garden hose because there is only one kind of port. If the EU would introduce a new standard to which roofs have to be built, then people will start using it within 3 years. And they will benefit a lot from that standard, so you will think twice before buying a new roof for 20k+ and not buy from the companies that keep to this standard. Also don’t underestimate the power of adapters. I think you also conflate the way which something is built with the specification it is built against - like interfaces vs implementation details. If you tell companies to build a certain kind of roof, with ports and wiring, then they will not receive any money if they don’t meet your spec. They are free to use the kind of wood, nails, wires (as long as thick enough) that they like, and this is where they can compete against each other.
- Baeocystin 8y ago
  Perhaps the parent comment has had some bad luck, but I've lived in a half-dozen US states, and have never seen any garden hose tap that was different than the standard set in the 60s. FWIW. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hose https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garden_hose
  - DubiousPusher 8y ago
    Garden faucets in the U.S. can be 3/8, 1/2, 5/8 or 3/4 inches. They can have a course thread or if a backflow preventer is reuired in your muni, they have a fine thread.
    - Baeocystin 8y ago
      I've seen hoses with all of those diameters, but they've all had the same standard fitting size at the ends. Same with the backflow preventers- all the normal course threads. Now I'm genuinely curious, what state are you in? (not being obstinate, I really am just curious!)
      - DubiousPusher 8y ago

amluto 8y ago

If you can design a roof from which a shingle can be replaced from the inside, the roof doesn't leak when exposed to wind-driven rain, the roof can hold your weight, and the cost isn't hilariously high, I'll be impressed. Also, if you stick a power port on your roof and you live in an area with lots of lightning, I'll stay away from your house.

manmal 8y ago
Basically every window is opened and can be replaced from the inside. How is that different? Regarding lightning, IDK how the Tesla roof solved this, but they obviously did.
- amluto 8y ago
  Have you ever seen a roof built? There’s a roof deck, and shingles of some sort are nailed in from above in a specific order. In many installations, there is a weatherproof barrier between the roof deck and the shingles. If you want to replace a single shingle in the middle, you do it carefully, and you may need a special fastener.
  - manmal 8y ago
    That’s how they are now built, yes. Cars looked very much different 100 years ago, too.