6 ms·

As others have said, the real issue is how they get all the way down to $200. Sale of personal info? Maybe when we get a clear answer, I'll consider checking m

As others have said, the real issue is how they get all the way down to $200. Sale of personal info? Maybe when we get a clear answer, I'll consider checking my genome. But not before.

88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago
This is a huge red flag for me. Maybe if you made your own bootleg flow cells and reagents? But even that seems like a stretch.
- CptFribble 8y ago
  DIY microfluidics is possible with shrinky-dinks circa 2014; but for-real genomics is a little harder TBH
  - 88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago
    Is there anything more to it than carving a piece of silica and ligating the adapters to the surface? I mean, I know the process is a bit more involved than that but the patents make it seem relatively straightforward.
    - CptFribble 8y ago
      It's straightforward in a conceptual sense, but as with most things there are a ton of gotchas and fiddly implementation details, especially if you're doing it in your kitchen/garage. A lot of the difficulty comes with the tedium of maintaining sterile conditions and lots and lots of pipetting. If you're really interested in DIYBIO there are subreddits and many tuts out there, but fair warning: getting started is easy, but the devil is in the details a heck of a lot more than learning to code.
- klmr 8y ago
  They’re not. They are using BGI’s MGISEQ2000 machines. They simply sell the sequencing at a price that doesn’t cover its cost. Both because this is a promotion and because they retain the rights to using your genomic data in research: it’s simply a cheap way for them to get samples.
shakna 8y ago
The privacy policy [0] suggests they're not selling personal information, and they make it easy for you to protect your information too. They do keep it for internal analyses and (maybe?) marketing purposes, but suggest that you can just ask them not to, and they won't. > You may withdraw your consent to participate in Dante Labs Research at any time by contacting Dante Labs at the email address: contact@dantelabs.com. Dante Labs will not include your Genetic Information or Self-Reported Information in studies that start more than 30 days after you withdraw (it may take up to 30 days to withdraw your information after you withdraw your consent). Any research involving your data that has already been performed or published prior to your withdrawal from Dante Labs Research will not be reversed, undone, or withdrawn. I'm not quite sure what to think. [0] https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/privacy-policy https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/privacy-policy
- onion2k 8y ago
  Also from their privacy policy; Dante Labs will not sell, lease, or rent your individual-level information to any third party or to a third party for research purposes without your explicit consent. So they will sell your data unless you specifically look for, find, and check the opt out. What happens to your data after that is out of Dante Labs control, so any other assurances they make are irrelevant.
  - jammygit 8y ago
    without reading the policy, I'd bet money there is a clause saying one or more of 1 - in the event of a sale, your data may be among the assets transfered 2 - this policy is updated from time to time and comes into effect at the time of posting, and maybe we'll notify you ahead of time
    - occamrazor 8y ago
      According to GDPR, in case 1 they can transfer the data to the acquiring entity only if they are GDPR compliant too, and in case 2 all data sharing must be opt-in, not opt-out, so they can’t increase the scope of sharing without notice and affirmative consent.
ehsankia 8y ago
Why would it not be possible? Considering how quickly the price has been falling [0], I would assume the price to be fairly close to $200-$300 by this point. Some are even targeting $100 soon [1]. It's also worth noting that this is an extreme sale, so they may be running at a loss or no profit, mostly for brand building. I definitely hadn't heard of them before today. [0] https://www.genome.gov/27541954/dna-sequencing-costs-data/ https://www.genome.gov/27541954/dna-sequencing-costs-data/ [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/illumina-wants-to-sequence-your-whole-genome-for-100/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/illumina-wants-to-sequence...
- rfc 8y ago
  Yeah... it unfortunately doesn't work like that. Illumina is notorious for glossing over many of the finer points around how they get to the fictitious numbers they claim. What they don't point out are all of the reagents, prep kits, overhead, lab costs, labor costs, software costs, pipettes, etc. The only way this company stays alive without significant venture funding (which it appears they don't have) is through partnering with pharmas. From reading their privacy policy, it looks like they are de-identifying genotypic and phenotypic data from users. This, at scale, creates a nice population based genetics study so that if I'm a pharma, I can look at a specific biomarker and all data associated with it. That helps me build drugs against certain genes, diseases, etc. So yes, you are the still the product and yes, your data is being resold.
  - jghn 8y ago
    They’re using BGI machines, not Illumina
    - rfc 8y ago
      They don't have their own labs based on how they phrased it within their About Us section. Given that + the turnaround time I'm seeing on the web, I'm willing to bet they outsource this to universities who have sequencer downtown. Also, in their About Us section they have every technology listed under the sun (Illumina, PacBio, Thermo, BGI) so I think it's just whatever they can get their hands on based on which labs have open runs. Seems quite questionable from a data integrity perspective if you're trying to do population based genetics. The quality between sequencers varies dramatically.
tempestn 8y ago
It's a short term promotion to build interest; I doubt they're expecting to make a profit at $200.
shaqbert 8y ago
They use sequencing tech from Complete Genomics[0]. Which in turn is owned by China based BGI. The tech is the brainchild of Dr Drmanac[1]. Note that the $200 price tag is for one of those Whole Genome Sequencing with lots (i.e. 1 error per million base pairs) of alpha and beta errors. A "perfect" sequence is waaaay more expensive. [0]: http://www.completegenomics.com/ http://www.completegenomics.com/ [1]: http://www.rdrmanac.com/ http://www.rdrmanac.com/
- new299 8y ago
  Interestingly they say Q20 >90%, Q30 >80%, on 100bp reads. That’s much higher than I’ve seen reported for prior Complete/BGI datasets. Recently lower error rates have been reported, but I’m surprised to see them this low. If this is true, it’s comparable to the error rates on Illuminas older instruments (the GA1s and 2s at least, if not Hiseqs). Q20 is one error in 100. Q30, one error in 1000. I think Illumina average error rate (Novaseq) is >Q30 now. Veritas Genetics were also offering a 200USD genome a while back. I think that was Illumina sequencing, but it was a very limited time offer.
  - cure 8y ago
    > Veritas Genetics were also offering a 200USD genome a while back. I think that was Illumina sequencing, but it was a very limited time offer. Yes, that was on Monday Nov 19th. Veritas offered 1,000 genomes (Illuminca sequencing) at USD 200. They sold out in 6 hours. * Disclaimer: I work for Veritas.
ryanmercer 8y ago
>As others have said, the real issue is how they get all the way down to $200. Wasn't Dubai trying to collect DNA on every citizen and visitor to their country? Not saying this company is in anyway connected to Dubai but there are any number of reasons why a company might want to amass a large sampling of DNA and, although not a lawyer, I can think of some plausible ways to use that data too. If they burn through any VC money they have amassing a database, then file bankruptcy or sell off their assets to satisfy debts before dissolving... "hey other company, that's totally not us or our investors, we gotta pay our taxes so we can dissolve, wanna buy some genomes wink wink?"

As others have said, the real issue is how they get all the way down to $200. Sale of personal info? Maybe when we get a clear answer, I'll consider checking my genome. But not before.

88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago

This is a huge red flag for me. Maybe if you made your own bootleg flow cells and reagents? But even that seems like a stretch.

CptFribble 8y ago
DIY microfluidics is possible with shrinky-dinks circa 2014; but for-real genomics is a little harder TBH
- 88e282102ae2e5b 8y ago
  Is there anything more to it than carving a piece of silica and ligating the adapters to the surface? I mean, I know the process is a bit more involved than that but the patents make it seem relatively straightforward.
  - CptFribble 8y ago
    It's straightforward in a conceptual sense, but as with most things there are a ton of gotchas and fiddly implementation details, especially if you're doing it in your kitchen/garage. A lot of the difficulty comes with the tedium of maintaining sterile conditions and lots and lots of pipetting. If you're really interested in DIYBIO there are subreddits and many tuts out there, but fair warning: getting started is easy, but the devil is in the details a heck of a lot more than learning to code.
klmr 8y ago
They’re not. They are using BGI’s MGISEQ2000 machines. They simply sell the sequencing at a price that doesn’t cover its cost. Both because this is a promotion and because they retain the rights to using your genomic data in research: it’s simply a cheap way for them to get samples.

shakna 8y ago

The privacy policy [0] suggests they're not selling personal information, and they make it easy for you to protect your information too. They do keep it for internal analyses and (maybe?) marketing purposes, but suggest that you can just ask them not to, and they won't. > You may withdraw your consent to participate in Dante Labs Research at any time by contacting Dante Labs at the email address: contact@dantelabs.com. Dante Labs will not include your Genetic Information or Self-Reported Information in studies that start more than 30 days after you withdraw (it may take up to 30 days to withdraw your information after you withdraw your consent). Any research involving your data that has already been performed or published prior to your withdrawal from Dante Labs Research will not be reversed, undone, or withdrawn. I'm not quite sure what to think. [0] https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/privacy-policy https://us.dantelabs.com/pages/privacy-policy

onion2k 8y ago
Also from their privacy policy; Dante Labs will not sell, lease, or rent your individual-level information to any third party or to a third party for research purposes without your explicit consent. So they will sell your data unless you specifically look for, find, and check the opt out. What happens to your data after that is out of Dante Labs control, so any other assurances they make are irrelevant.
- jammygit 8y ago
  without reading the policy, I'd bet money there is a clause saying one or more of 1 - in the event of a sale, your data may be among the assets transfered 2 - this policy is updated from time to time and comes into effect at the time of posting, and maybe we'll notify you ahead of time
  - occamrazor 8y ago
    According to GDPR, in case 1 they can transfer the data to the acquiring entity only if they are GDPR compliant too, and in case 2 all data sharing must be opt-in, not opt-out, so they can’t increase the scope of sharing without notice and affirmative consent.

ehsankia 8y ago

Why would it not be possible? Considering how quickly the price has been falling [0], I would assume the price to be fairly close to $200-$300 by this point. Some are even targeting $100 soon [1]. It's also worth noting that this is an extreme sale, so they may be running at a loss or no profit, mostly for brand building. I definitely hadn't heard of them before today. [0] https://www.genome.gov/27541954/dna-sequencing-costs-data/ https://www.genome.gov/27541954/dna-sequencing-costs-data/ [1] https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/illumina-wants-to-sequence-your-whole-genome-for-100/ https://techcrunch.com/2017/01/10/illumina-wants-to-sequence...

rfc 8y ago
Yeah... it unfortunately doesn't work like that. Illumina is notorious for glossing over many of the finer points around how they get to the fictitious numbers they claim. What they don't point out are all of the reagents, prep kits, overhead, lab costs, labor costs, software costs, pipettes, etc. The only way this company stays alive without significant venture funding (which it appears they don't have) is through partnering with pharmas. From reading their privacy policy, it looks like they are de-identifying genotypic and phenotypic data from users. This, at scale, creates a nice population based genetics study so that if I'm a pharma, I can look at a specific biomarker and all data associated with it. That helps me build drugs against certain genes, diseases, etc. So yes, you are the still the product and yes, your data is being resold.
- jghn 8y ago
  They’re using BGI machines, not Illumina
  - rfc 8y ago
    They don't have their own labs based on how they phrased it within their About Us section. Given that + the turnaround time I'm seeing on the web, I'm willing to bet they outsource this to universities who have sequencer downtown. Also, in their About Us section they have every technology listed under the sun (Illumina, PacBio, Thermo, BGI) so I think it's just whatever they can get their hands on based on which labs have open runs. Seems quite questionable from a data integrity perspective if you're trying to do population based genetics. The quality between sequencers varies dramatically.

tempestn 8y ago

It's a short term promotion to build interest; I doubt they're expecting to make a profit at $200.

shaqbert 8y ago

They use sequencing tech from Complete Genomics[0]. Which in turn is owned by China based BGI. The tech is the brainchild of Dr Drmanac[1]. Note that the $200 price tag is for one of those Whole Genome Sequencing with lots (i.e. 1 error per million base pairs) of alpha and beta errors. A "perfect" sequence is waaaay more expensive. [0]: http://www.completegenomics.com/ http://www.completegenomics.com/ [1]: http://www.rdrmanac.com/ http://www.rdrmanac.com/

new299 8y ago
Interestingly they say Q20 >90%, Q30 >80%, on 100bp reads. That’s much higher than I’ve seen reported for prior Complete/BGI datasets. Recently lower error rates have been reported, but I’m surprised to see them this low. If this is true, it’s comparable to the error rates on Illuminas older instruments (the GA1s and 2s at least, if not Hiseqs). Q20 is one error in 100. Q30, one error in 1000. I think Illumina average error rate (Novaseq) is >Q30 now. Veritas Genetics were also offering a 200USD genome a while back. I think that was Illumina sequencing, but it was a very limited time offer.
- cure 8y ago
  > Veritas Genetics were also offering a 200USD genome a while back. I think that was Illumina sequencing, but it was a very limited time offer. Yes, that was on Monday Nov 19th. Veritas offered 1,000 genomes (Illuminca sequencing) at USD 200. They sold out in 6 hours. * Disclaimer: I work for Veritas.

ryanmercer 8y ago

>As others have said, the real issue is how they get all the way down to $200. Wasn't Dubai trying to collect DNA on every citizen and visitor to their country? Not saying this company is in anyway connected to Dubai but there are any number of reasons why a company might want to amass a large sampling of DNA and, although not a lawyer, I can think of some plausible ways to use that data too. If they burn through any VC money they have amassing a database, then file bankruptcy or sell off their assets to satisfy debts before dissolving... "hey other company, that's totally not us or our investors, we gotta pay our taxes so we can dissolve, wanna buy some genomes wink wink?"