6 ms·

I'm sorry that you're in pain. If you are considering suicide, please don't do it. Many people want to help you. If you're in the US, you can call the Nation

I'm sorry that you're in pain. If you are considering suicide, please don't do it. Many people want to help you. If you're in the US, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255, 24/7. It probably works from outside the US too.

tejohnso 8y ago
Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? The parent said nothing about being in pain. The parent posted a completely rational statement. Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action and that this person needs help of some kind. Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.
- brazzy 8y ago
  > Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? No. "compassionate" is the description I would use. > The parent said nothing about being in pain. They repeatedly used the word "suffering". > The parent posted a completely rational statement. Not really, no. > Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action There is. > and that this person needs help of some kind. They do. > Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. But in the majority of cases, it is a dysfunctional behavior. > There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, Very few, really. > and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational. The absolute number may be large, but a tiny fraction of the number of people who consider suicide for irrational reasons.
  - deytempo 8y ago
    As you’ve already conceded that there are few but existing rational reasons to commit suicide, the next question is who gets to decide what reason is rational and what gives them the right to decide that for someone else?
    - brazzy 8y ago
      That is indeed a difficult question. I doubt a perfect answer is possible. Existing suicide-assisting organizations e.g. in Switzerland typically rely on individual assessments based on extended dialogue with the person wishing assistance and their doctor.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      We could start with "Do at least 1/3 of the population think it's justified?" I believe that puts depression on the "no" side and painful terminal illness on the "yes" side with extremely large margins. Work from there to refine the criteria.
  - saurik 8y ago
    The comment did not feel even slightly "compassionate": it felt like a cold, dispassionate template, the kind of thing read off by someone who knew they should care but didn't _really_, followed by a phone number. Part of what makes it so _not_ compasssionate is how "lazy" the thought is; FWIW, so far _no one_ in this discussion of this issue has mentioned the OP's website: there is essentially a suicide note on it right now, claiming they have already died. The attached blog is all about suicide, and goes into their issue. They have a protected Twitter account, a deleted Facebook, apparently Google+ (is that still a thing?), LinkedIn, GitHub, and Instagram... I have sent a message via Instagram (but the account is empty, so maybe entirely unused and abandoned).
    - kwxza 8y ago
      Do you mean the website of Mikita Brottman, the author of the attached article? I viewed her website and I didn't see the suicide note. Can you link please?
      - saurik 8y ago
        No: the person whose comment started this thread, the comment with the suicidal fringe to it which caused someone else to leave the "call this hotline" comment which then led to the argument that led to my comment. https://intralizee.com/ https://intralizee.com/ Note: the person did not respond to me on Instagram.
  - tuesday20 8y ago
    Compassionate? It reads like an automated message that scans for suicide related words and posts a generic text with the hotline number.
- fernandopj 8y ago
  I honestly don't see it. From where I stand, he's trying to provide useful information to someone who one can (very reasonably) assume might be of help. First sentence doesn't have to be correct, but can't hurt to empathize first.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- some_random 8y ago
  > Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? Yes, though not at all for the reasons you stated. The canned suicide hotline/cheery bullshit/"you can talk to me if you're sad!1!" is absolutely awful, and not usually what a depressed person talking about their depression on the internet needs to hear. It shuts down the conversation in a way that no one can reasonably argue with, and gets the well meaning asshole who copy pasted a few phone numbers into a text box a bunch of internet points, and little else.
  - c22 8y ago
    It's true that this sort of direct approach is likely ineffective for many depressed people, but it is also unlikely particularly detrimental. As someone who has fixated on and attempted suicide in the past, I now feel like that decision would have been a grave mistake. So I am glad things like the Suicide Prevention Hotline exist and are advertised by smug internet assholes because I think they do help some of the people who may be blundering into a bad decision.
    - kazagistar 8y ago
      I've heard horror stories. Hotlines being required by the US to call emergency services on mention of suicide, which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt.
      - tuesday20 8y ago
        which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt. This is beyond disgusting. Who comes up with these stupid laws? Take freedom and money from someone already depressed? WTF
  - alan_wade 8y ago
    What is the best way to respond/try to help?
- thrower123 8y ago
  Spot on. I don't believe anyone who claims not to have contemplated suicide; it's everpresent in the news and entertainment. It always has been, too. If anything, not having thought through some of those eventualities is short-sighted.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
fouc 8y ago
What's the option for people that dislike talking on the phone or are deaf? Seems like a growing minority of people these days might prefer a chat app over a phone call.
- evan_ 8y ago
  The Suicide Prevention Helpline has a TTY number: 1-800-799-4TTY There’s also a chat on their website: http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineCh... There’s more info about it here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ I found a number of suicide prevention text numbers but I can’t vouch for any.
kazagistar 8y ago
What exactly does a suicide hotline do? Call the ambulance the moment you mention suicide and charge you for it?
- thomasfedb 8y ago
  Mostly they listen and try to provide an outlet, offer coping skills, suggest places to turn for help. And yes, some services will call an ambulance if they think you're in imminent danger. Others don't.
xfitm3 8y ago
This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion.
- clubm8 8y ago
  > This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion. You think giving parent resources for help is "a negative contribution to the discussion"? Wow. Don't let your clinical word choice fool you, that's an incredibly toxic response.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    > giving parent resources While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines?
    - clubm8 8y ago
      >While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines? Do you think the parent was informing of their existence, or reminding a poster who may need a nudge in stressed state of mind?
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        It seemed like a nudge to me. Which in a context like this is not so obviously beneficial as giving resources.
shrimpx 8y ago
And what if your comment has the opposite effect, motivating people toward suicide?

tejohnso 8y ago

Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? The parent said nothing about being in pain. The parent posted a completely rational statement. Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action and that this person needs help of some kind. Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.

brazzy 8y ago
> Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? No. "compassionate" is the description I would use. > The parent said nothing about being in pain. They repeatedly used the word "suffering". > The parent posted a completely rational statement. Not really, no. > Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action There is. > and that this person needs help of some kind. They do. > Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. But in the majority of cases, it is a dysfunctional behavior. > There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, Very few, really. > and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational. The absolute number may be large, but a tiny fraction of the number of people who consider suicide for irrational reasons.
- deytempo 8y ago
  As you’ve already conceded that there are few but existing rational reasons to commit suicide, the next question is who gets to decide what reason is rational and what gives them the right to decide that for someone else?
  - brazzy 8y ago
    That is indeed a difficult question. I doubt a perfect answer is possible. Existing suicide-assisting organizations e.g. in Switzerland typically rely on individual assessments based on extended dialogue with the person wishing assistance and their doctor.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    We could start with "Do at least 1/3 of the population think it's justified?" I believe that puts depression on the "no" side and painful terminal illness on the "yes" side with extremely large margins. Work from there to refine the criteria.
- saurik 8y ago
  The comment did not feel even slightly "compassionate": it felt like a cold, dispassionate template, the kind of thing read off by someone who knew they should care but didn't _really_, followed by a phone number. Part of what makes it so _not_ compasssionate is how "lazy" the thought is; FWIW, so far _no one_ in this discussion of this issue has mentioned the OP's website: there is essentially a suicide note on it right now, claiming they have already died. The attached blog is all about suicide, and goes into their issue. They have a protected Twitter account, a deleted Facebook, apparently Google+ (is that still a thing?), LinkedIn, GitHub, and Instagram... I have sent a message via Instagram (but the account is empty, so maybe entirely unused and abandoned).
  - kwxza 8y ago
    Do you mean the website of Mikita Brottman, the author of the attached article? I viewed her website and I didn't see the suicide note. Can you link please?
    - saurik 8y ago
      No: the person whose comment started this thread, the comment with the suicidal fringe to it which caused someone else to leave the "call this hotline" comment which then led to the argument that led to my comment. https://intralizee.com/ https://intralizee.com/ Note: the person did not respond to me on Instagram.
- tuesday20 8y ago
  Compassionate? It reads like an automated message that scans for suicide related words and posts a generic text with the hotline number.
fernandopj 8y ago
I honestly don't see it. From where I stand, he's trying to provide useful information to someone who one can (very reasonably) assume might be of help. First sentence doesn't have to be correct, but can't hurt to empathize first.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
some_random 8y ago
> Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? Yes, though not at all for the reasons you stated. The canned suicide hotline/cheery bullshit/"you can talk to me if you're sad!1!" is absolutely awful, and not usually what a depressed person talking about their depression on the internet needs to hear. It shuts down the conversation in a way that no one can reasonably argue with, and gets the well meaning asshole who copy pasted a few phone numbers into a text box a bunch of internet points, and little else.
- c22 8y ago
  It's true that this sort of direct approach is likely ineffective for many depressed people, but it is also unlikely particularly detrimental. As someone who has fixated on and attempted suicide in the past, I now feel like that decision would have been a grave mistake. So I am glad things like the Suicide Prevention Hotline exist and are advertised by smug internet assholes because I think they do help some of the people who may be blundering into a bad decision.
  - kazagistar 8y ago
    I've heard horror stories. Hotlines being required by the US to call emergency services on mention of suicide, which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt.
    - tuesday20 8y ago
      which leads to forceful loss of freedom and medical and ambulance bills that put the caller in a spiral of debt. This is beyond disgusting. Who comes up with these stupid laws? Take freedom and money from someone already depressed? WTF
- alan_wade 8y ago
  What is the best way to respond/try to help?
thrower123 8y ago
Spot on. I don't believe anyone who claims not to have contemplated suicide; it's everpresent in the news and entertainment. It always has been, too. If anything, not having thought through some of those eventualities is short-sighted.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

fouc 8y ago

What's the option for people that dislike talking on the phone or are deaf? Seems like a growing minority of people these days might prefer a chat app over a phone call.

evan_ 8y ago
The Suicide Prevention Helpline has a TTY number: 1-800-799-4TTY There’s also a chat on their website: http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineCh... There’s more info about it here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ I found a number of suicide prevention text numbers but I can’t vouch for any.

kazagistar 8y ago

What exactly does a suicide hotline do? Call the ambulance the moment you mention suicide and charge you for it?

thomasfedb 8y ago
Mostly they listen and try to provide an outlet, offer coping skills, suggest places to turn for help. And yes, some services will call an ambulance if they think you're in imminent danger. Others don't.

xfitm3 8y ago

This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion.

clubm8 8y ago
> This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion. You think giving parent resources for help is "a negative contribution to the discussion"? Wow. Don't let your clinical word choice fool you, that's an incredibly toxic response.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  > giving parent resources While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines?
  - clubm8 8y ago
    >While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines? Do you think the parent was informing of their existence, or reminding a poster who may need a nudge in stressed state of mind?
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      It seemed like a nudge to me. Which in a context like this is not so obviously beneficial as giving resources.

shrimpx 8y ago

And what if your comment has the opposite effect, motivating people toward suicide?