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I’ve thought of going to Vegas and playing everything on red and proceed with suicide. I think it would be epic but would prefer a suicide that is more humane.

I’ve thought of going to Vegas and playing everything on red and proceed with suicide. I think it would be epic but would prefer a suicide that is more humane. People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital. What society does now for people that suffer is so irrational, I might as well go to a church and be told to pray for things to get better because that is exactly what mental health professionals do with some drugs thrown in to distort reality. People that want suicide are rational and suffer from a reality that doesn’t favor them.

isostatic 8y ago
> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital The concept of a suicide is hardly new - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth
- mprev 8y ago
  Your reply is fascinating. Are you really trying one-up someone who is hinting heavily at their own desire for suicide?
steve_g 8y ago
I'm sorry that you're in pain. If you are considering suicide, please don't do it. Many people want to help you. If you're in the US, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255, 24/7. It probably works from outside the US too.
- tejohnso 8y ago
  Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? The parent said nothing about being in pain. The parent posted a completely rational statement. Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action and that this person needs help of some kind. Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.
  - brazzy 8y ago
    > Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? No. "compassionate" is the description I would use. > The parent said nothing about being in pain. They repeatedly used the word "suffering". > The parent posted a completely rational statement. Not really, no. > Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action There is. > and that this person needs help of some kind. They do. > Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. But in the majority of cases, it is a dysfunctional behavior. > There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, Very few, really. > and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational. The absolute number may be large, but a tiny fraction of the number of people who consider suicide for irrational reasons.
    - deytempo 8y ago
      As you’ve already conceded that there are few but existing rational reasons to commit suicide, the next question is who gets to decide what reason is rational and what gives them the right to decide that for someone else?
      - brazzy 8y ago
        That is indeed a difficult question. I doubt a perfect answer is possible. Existing suicide-assisting organizations e.g. in Switzerland typically rely on individual assessments based on extended dialogue with the person wishing assistance and their doctor.
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        We could start with "Do at least 1/3 of the population think it's justified?" I believe that puts depression on the "no" side and painful terminal illness on the "yes" side with extremely large margins. Work from there to refine the criteria.
    - saurik 8y ago
      The comment did not feel even slightly "compassionate": it felt like a cold, dispassionate template, the kind of thing read off by someone who knew they should care but didn't _really_, followed by a phone number. Part of what makes it so _not_ compasssionate is how "lazy" the thought is; FWIW, so far _no one_ in this discussion of this issue has mentioned the OP's website: there is essentially a suicide note on it right now, claiming they have already died. The attached blog is all about suicide, and goes into their issue. They have a protected Twitter account, a deleted Facebook, apparently Google+ (is that still a thing?), LinkedIn, GitHub, and Instagram... I have sent a message via Instagram (but the account is empty, so maybe entirely unused and abandoned).
- fouc 8y ago
  What's the option for people that dislike talking on the phone or are deaf? Seems like a growing minority of people these days might prefer a chat app over a phone call.
  - evan_ 8y ago
    The Suicide Prevention Helpline has a TTY number: 1-800-799-4TTY There’s also a chat on their website: http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineCh... There’s more info about it here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ I found a number of suicide prevention text numbers but I can’t vouch for any.
- kazagistar 8y ago
  What exactly does a suicide hotline do? Call the ambulance the moment you mention suicide and charge you for it?
  - thomasfedb 8y ago
    Mostly they listen and try to provide an outlet, offer coping skills, suggest places to turn for help. And yes, some services will call an ambulance if they think you're in imminent danger. Others don't.
- xfitm3 8y ago
  This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion.
  - clubm8 8y ago
    > This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion. You think giving parent resources for help is "a negative contribution to the discussion"? Wow. Don't let your clinical word choice fool you, that's an incredibly toxic response.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      > giving parent resources While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines?
      - clubm8 8y ago
        >While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines? Do you think the parent was informing of their existence, or reminding a poster who may need a nudge in stressed state of mind?
        Dylan16807 8y ago
        It seemed like a nudge to me. Which in a context like this is not so obviously beneficial as giving resources.
- shrimpx 8y ago
  And what if your comment has the opposite effect, motivating people toward suicide?
Double_a_92 8y ago
> What society does now for people that suffer is so irrational What would you do with someone that suffers from e.g. a broken leg?
- culot 8y ago
  What if the broken leg cannot be repaired and no pain meds are effective? Suffer! :P
- ReptileMan 8y ago
  If they are young or if they are old and fragile? After certain age and health combo getting bedridden is a slow death sentence. The concept of coup de grace is not new. We may argue where it is applicable, but I think it has place in our society. Life is a game, so a person should be able to quit on their terms.
  - Double_a_92 8y ago
    The problem is that in most cases the feeling of wanting to quit is the illness itself. It's different for very old people or people with very bad illnesses though.
brazzy 8y ago
> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital. Very bad idea. > People that want suicide are rational and suffer from a reality that doesn’t favor them. That is provably not true in all (probably most) cases. Apart from the fact that for very many people, suicidal thoughs and actions are transient, leaving them very happy that it was not easy to follow through to completion, there is the matter of moral hazard: situations where people who would profit from someone's death could reinforce or even induce suicidal thoughs in that person.
- ABCLAW 8y ago
  >That is provably not true in all (probably most) cases. There are plenty of counterexamples: People who suffer from a condition which causes substantial chronic pain, those who wish to time their passing in order to minimize financial harm to their family, etc.
  - brazzy 8y ago
    I was not making a general statement, the person I was replying to was, so "counterexamples" are relevant to their comment, not mine.
- DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
  maybe not in all, but it's true in many cases. I do consider myself of sound mind (but what do I know am I a doctor? /s) and am at least currently happy. But I do never want to die in pointlessly extended agony, unable to think because the painkillers of my disease are fogging my mind like a bad dream. Or withering away in an old peoples home because the kids are living in far away countries. Not everyone buys the idea that everything will be better tomorrow. It should be up to the individual to decide how they go. In my case I see only 2 options: a sudden unforeseen death or suicide at a point of time and place and method in which I deem appropriate. Nobody should tell others how they are allowed to go. And since I had no control over how I came into this world at least there is with some luck the possibility of me going out under my terms. Not sure how somebody would want to deny that right, or automatically label suicidal people as depressed or mentally unstable. Optimists will simply never learn. It's another form of extremist or elitist thinking. We were conditioned to always be optimistic 24/7 (nobody openly pessimistic will pass a job interview, and if they do they won't have friends at work). That conditioning is passed on to kids, because without that skill they will either grow up writing philosophy books for a fringe genre or end up homeless. In my experience optimism isn't something that leads to long term happiness. Not unless a strong dose of cognitive dissonance is already present allowing the individual to disengage with the fact that we are killing the planet that supports us. Tomorrow won't be better than today, that is just an illusion. For anyone not afraid to explore dark subjects I highly recommend Nethescurial by horror writer Thomas Ligotti (this is his only philosophical non-fiction work).
MrTonyD 8y ago
Just watched "The Sea Inside" - a true story. It makes the case for suicide in a very moving manner. I believe that for anyone who stops to think about it, it is clear that there are other situations where there is suffering, and quite often there is no viable solution. Those who claim that there are always options better than death are naive (or intentionally harming others). I'm always amazed by the arguments they think up to defend their philosophical position.
- all2 8y ago
  People in this thread keep talking about suffering. I would like to disambiguate: suffering is not pain. Suffering is focusing on the pain and assuming that we should not have pain (and being lost in the idea that they should somehow be free of how they feel). There is a lot of stuff about mental resiliency (and what to do with chronic pain - emotional and physical) that talks about how to deal with pain. > quite often there is no viable solution. There might not be a 'solution' to removing pain. Pain is a fact of life. Its what we do with it that matters. [edit] More text. [/edit]
  - yesenadam 8y ago
    suffering is not pain. Suffering is focusing on the pain ...Pain is a fact of life. Its what we do with it that matters. This is the major insight of Buddhism, I think; that's not a bad summary of the Four Noble Truths.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Nobody should be in chronic pain. Please do not conflate instances of pain with chronic pain.
    - all2 8y ago
      I don't intend to be indifferent, but no one deserves anything. Not pain, not freedom from pain. This sort of entitlement is what leads to suffering.
      - 8y ago
forrestthewoods 8y ago
> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital. That’s gonna be a no for me. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/25/dutch-doctor-reprimanded-asking-family-hold-euthanasia-patient/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/25/dutch-doctor-rep... The incentives are too perverse.
- astura 8y ago
  The doctor in this case was cleared of any wrongdoing. Which is pretty scary, honestly. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/panel-clears-dutch-doctor-asked-family-hold-patient-carried/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/panel-clears-dut...
Raphmedia 8y ago
I've been there. Suicidal thoughts are the brain's malware. They are not your fault. The only thing you can do is hang on for dear life and consciously decline every time your mind asks you to end it. Don't give up. Keep fighting it. It takes a lot of time and effort. That's okay. It's one of life's greatest challenges.
shrimpx 8y ago
Not all people that want suicide are rational, but some of them are, for sure.

isostatic 8y ago

> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital The concept of a suicide is hardly new - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_booth

mprev 8y ago
Your reply is fascinating. Are you really trying one-up someone who is hinting heavily at their own desire for suicide?

steve_g 8y ago

I'm sorry that you're in pain. If you are considering suicide, please don't do it. Many people want to help you. If you're in the US, you can call the National Suicide Prevention Hotline at 1-800-273-8255, 24/7. It probably works from outside the US too.

tejohnso 8y ago
Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? The parent said nothing about being in pain. The parent posted a completely rational statement. Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action and that this person needs help of some kind. Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational.
- brazzy 8y ago
  > Does anybody else find this kind of response patronizing? No. "compassionate" is the description I would use. > The parent said nothing about being in pain. They repeatedly used the word "suffering". > The parent posted a completely rational statement. Not really, no. > Here someone comes along trying to sound as though there is some moral or intellectual superiority to the opposite action There is. > and that this person needs help of some kind. They do. > Perhaps we would have more humane suicide options if society were to stop regarding suicide as some kind of dysfunctional behavior. But in the majority of cases, it is a dysfunctional behavior. > There are plenty of rational reasons to commit suicide, Very few, really. > and there are plenty of cases where not committing suicide seems rather irrational. The absolute number may be large, but a tiny fraction of the number of people who consider suicide for irrational reasons.
  - deytempo 8y ago
    As you’ve already conceded that there are few but existing rational reasons to commit suicide, the next question is who gets to decide what reason is rational and what gives them the right to decide that for someone else?
    - brazzy 8y ago
      That is indeed a difficult question. I doubt a perfect answer is possible. Existing suicide-assisting organizations e.g. in Switzerland typically rely on individual assessments based on extended dialogue with the person wishing assistance and their doctor.
    - Dylan16807 8y ago
      We could start with "Do at least 1/3 of the population think it's justified?" I believe that puts depression on the "no" side and painful terminal illness on the "yes" side with extremely large margins. Work from there to refine the criteria.
  - saurik 8y ago
    The comment did not feel even slightly "compassionate": it felt like a cold, dispassionate template, the kind of thing read off by someone who knew they should care but didn't _really_, followed by a phone number. Part of what makes it so _not_ compasssionate is how "lazy" the thought is; FWIW, so far _no one_ in this discussion of this issue has mentioned the OP's website: there is essentially a suicide note on it right now, claiming they have already died. The attached blog is all about suicide, and goes into their issue. They have a protected Twitter account, a deleted Facebook, apparently Google+ (is that still a thing?), LinkedIn, GitHub, and Instagram... I have sent a message via Instagram (but the account is empty, so maybe entirely unused and abandoned).
fouc 8y ago
What's the option for people that dislike talking on the phone or are deaf? Seems like a growing minority of people these days might prefer a chat app over a phone call.
- evan_ 8y ago
  The Suicide Prevention Helpline has a TTY number: 1-800-799-4TTY There’s also a chat on their website: http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineChat.aspx http://chat.suicidepreventionlifeline.org/GetHelp/LifelineCh... There’s more info about it here: https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/faq/ I found a number of suicide prevention text numbers but I can’t vouch for any.
kazagistar 8y ago
What exactly does a suicide hotline do? Call the ambulance the moment you mention suicide and charge you for it?
- thomasfedb 8y ago
  Mostly they listen and try to provide an outlet, offer coping skills, suggest places to turn for help. And yes, some services will call an ambulance if they think you're in imminent danger. Others don't.
xfitm3 8y ago
This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion.
- clubm8 8y ago
  > This comment is a negative contribution to the discussion. You think giving parent resources for help is "a negative contribution to the discussion"? Wow. Don't let your clinical word choice fool you, that's an incredibly toxic response.
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    > giving parent resources While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines?
    - clubm8 8y ago
      >While xfitm3 was being rude, do you honestly think the OP was unaware of suicide hotlines? Do you think the parent was informing of their existence, or reminding a poster who may need a nudge in stressed state of mind?
      - Dylan16807 8y ago
        It seemed like a nudge to me. Which in a context like this is not so obviously beneficial as giving resources.
shrimpx 8y ago
And what if your comment has the opposite effect, motivating people toward suicide?

Double_a_92 8y ago

> What society does now for people that suffer is so irrational What would you do with someone that suffers from e.g. a broken leg?

culot 8y ago
What if the broken leg cannot be repaired and no pain meds are effective? Suffer! :P
ReptileMan 8y ago
If they are young or if they are old and fragile? After certain age and health combo getting bedridden is a slow death sentence. The concept of coup de grace is not new. We may argue where it is applicable, but I think it has place in our society. Life is a game, so a person should be able to quit on their terms.
- Double_a_92 8y ago
  The problem is that in most cases the feeling of wanting to quit is the illness itself. It's different for very old people or people with very bad illnesses though.

brazzy 8y ago

> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital. Very bad idea. > People that want suicide are rational and suffer from a reality that doesn’t favor them. That is provably not true in all (probably most) cases. Apart from the fact that for very many people, suicidal thoughs and actions are transient, leaving them very happy that it was not easy to follow through to completion, there is the matter of moral hazard: situations where people who would profit from someone's death could reinforce or even induce suicidal thoughs in that person.

ABCLAW 8y ago
>That is provably not true in all (probably most) cases. There are plenty of counterexamples: People who suffer from a condition which causes substantial chronic pain, those who wish to time their passing in order to minimize financial harm to their family, etc.
- brazzy 8y ago
  I was not making a general statement, the person I was replying to was, so "counterexamples" are relevant to their comment, not mine.
DyslexicAtheist 8y ago
maybe not in all, but it's true in many cases. I do consider myself of sound mind (but what do I know am I a doctor? /s) and am at least currently happy. But I do never want to die in pointlessly extended agony, unable to think because the painkillers of my disease are fogging my mind like a bad dream. Or withering away in an old peoples home because the kids are living in far away countries. Not everyone buys the idea that everything will be better tomorrow. It should be up to the individual to decide how they go. In my case I see only 2 options: a sudden unforeseen death or suicide at a point of time and place and method in which I deem appropriate. Nobody should tell others how they are allowed to go. And since I had no control over how I came into this world at least there is with some luck the possibility of me going out under my terms. Not sure how somebody would want to deny that right, or automatically label suicidal people as depressed or mentally unstable. Optimists will simply never learn. It's another form of extremist or elitist thinking. We were conditioned to always be optimistic 24/7 (nobody openly pessimistic will pass a job interview, and if they do they won't have friends at work). That conditioning is passed on to kids, because without that skill they will either grow up writing philosophy books for a fringe genre or end up homeless. In my experience optimism isn't something that leads to long term happiness. Not unless a strong dose of cognitive dissonance is already present allowing the individual to disengage with the fact that we are killing the planet that supports us. Tomorrow won't be better than today, that is just an illusion. For anyone not afraid to explore dark subjects I highly recommend Nethescurial by horror writer Thomas Ligotti (this is his only philosophical non-fiction work).

MrTonyD 8y ago

Just watched "The Sea Inside" - a true story. It makes the case for suicide in a very moving manner. I believe that for anyone who stops to think about it, it is clear that there are other situations where there is suffering, and quite often there is no viable solution. Those who claim that there are always options better than death are naive (or intentionally harming others). I'm always amazed by the arguments they think up to defend their philosophical position.

all2 8y ago
People in this thread keep talking about suffering. I would like to disambiguate: suffering is not pain. Suffering is focusing on the pain and assuming that we should not have pain (and being lost in the idea that they should somehow be free of how they feel). There is a lot of stuff about mental resiliency (and what to do with chronic pain - emotional and physical) that talks about how to deal with pain. > quite often there is no viable solution. There might not be a 'solution' to removing pain. Pain is a fact of life. Its what we do with it that matters. [edit] More text. [/edit]
- yesenadam 8y ago
  suffering is not pain. Suffering is focusing on the pain ...Pain is a fact of life. Its what we do with it that matters. This is the major insight of Buddhism, I think; that's not a bad summary of the Four Noble Truths.
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Nobody should be in chronic pain. Please do not conflate instances of pain with chronic pain.
  - all2 8y ago
    I don't intend to be indifferent, but no one deserves anything. Not pain, not freedom from pain. This sort of entitlement is what leads to suffering.
    - 8y ago

forrestthewoods 8y ago

> People should just allow suicide by administration from a machine in a hospital. That’s gonna be a no for me. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/25/dutch-doctor-reprimanded-asking-family-hold-euthanasia-patient/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/25/dutch-doctor-rep... The incentives are too perverse.

astura 8y ago
The doctor in this case was cleared of any wrongdoing. Which is pretty scary, honestly. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/panel-clears-dutch-doctor-asked-family-hold-patient-carried/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/28/panel-clears-dut...

Raphmedia 8y ago

I've been there. Suicidal thoughts are the brain's malware. They are not your fault. The only thing you can do is hang on for dear life and consciously decline every time your mind asks you to end it. Don't give up. Keep fighting it. It takes a lot of time and effort. That's okay. It's one of life's greatest challenges.

shrimpx 8y ago

Not all people that want suicide are rational, but some of them are, for sure.