5 ms·

When I was an engineering recruiter, 10 seconds hit the nose. If anybody wants to writeup a ruleset that mirrors the (definitely fallable) process I used to us

When I was an engineering recruiter, 10 seconds hit the nose. If anybody wants to writeup a ruleset that mirrors the (definitely fallable) process I used to use, here's the rules: 1. Candidate probably local? {check address, if listed, else check location of previous roles} (required by our clients) 2. Candidate doesn't need sponsorship, probably? {check address, if listed, else check location of previous roles to ensure >5 years working in US, compare against university location} (required by our clients, and saturated market anyway. didn't like this one but that was the job) 3. Candidate has proper job title? {check last job title, ensure it's not >1 year ago, check previous job titles, ensure has had job title for some required amount of time} 4. Candidate has clean work history? {check for gaps between roles, or length of each individual role, look for big gaps or many short jobs} (not necessarily a disqualifier, but will be asked about) 5. Candidate has specific keywords required by position? {scan each job in earliest->oldest chronological order, ensuring recent and decent time spent on {{TECHNOLOGY}}} If I've gotten to bullet point 5 I'm probably already tapping their phone number into my phone, and doing a final scan for 6. Red flag? {look for political opinions on the resume, opinions of their previous bosses, proudly listed membership of organizations like the KKK (it's happened), too many spelling errors, rants about the job hunting process, odd demands surrounding salary or compensation or work style, or just general signs of weirdness/assholeness/difficult-to-deal-with-ness}

outworlder 8y ago
What’s with this obsession with “gaps”? What are you trying to screen for? Is everyone supposed to be working non stop from their first job until they retire or die? I can sort of understand if it’s been years since the last position and the individual is applying for your company after being away from the market. But a gap in the middle of the job history? Why do you care ?
- expertentipp 8y ago
  > rants about the job hunting process you're out, mate
- isoskeles 8y ago
  Maybe they were in prison for murder! (I am also curious to hear why.)
- komali2 8y ago
  > What are you trying to screen for? People that can't keep a job, or get a job, often. It was Oil and Gas, so turnover was expected (projects finish, everyone goes away), but if consistently over the last decade or 2 they couldn't get on another project, it was a red flag. Not disqualifying, but a red flag. If it was a big gap ten years ago, nobody cares. If it was a single big gap less than 5 years ago, probably nobody cares, I'd just have to ask about it, because my client would want to know.
  - Carpetsmoker 8y ago
    How big of a gap is a "big gap"? I have a 6 month gap before my current employer (of 2.5 years) because I spent some time doing stuff other than work with my savings. Should I fill that with "freelance, travel, and open source" or some such (even though I didn't do all that much freelance work)?
    - komali2 8y ago
      I would leave off the months on your resume so that it doesn't look like a gap. Or, put "2016 - Present," and then if they ask about what kind of notice you need to post, say "oh, I actually don't work there anymore, woops, I forgot to take off the 'to present' on my resume, thanks for bringing that up."
- ravenstine 8y ago
  I've been willingly unemployed for months and somehow it hasn't negatively affected my ability to get interviews. I think the obsession with gaps is dying out as the old guard retires. Companies run by boomers might think negatively of gaps, but ones run by Gen X'ers and beyond don't seem to care at all. Some of them have even been curious as to how I've been able to quit my job without another lined up!
C1sc0cat 8y ago
Well 1 Linked in stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that just because my post town is Milton Keynes - I don't live there I rejected an approach for a MK job last night on LI for this reason. And part of 6 indicates that you are looking for NeuroTypical's "interesting" :-)
maxxxxx 8y ago
"proudly listed membership of organizations like the KKK " That's actually an excellent filter :-). I bet a lot of employers will reject you but others probably will take you probably just for that reason.
- mythrwy 8y ago
  Klean Koders Klub?
umichguy 8y ago
What's the take on people who have had a career break of 1 to 2yrs? Through travel or medical situations or whatever. A friend of mine took a year and half off after having worked non-stop for ~15yrs (burnt out), went exploring and is now trying to get back into work but is having some difficulty for recruiters to call him back after applying. He never had any breaks in his work history before the recent and only one.
- komali2 8y ago
  Huge red flag. Put for the last job "2016-Present," and then if they ask about it, say "oh, I actually don't work there anymore, I need to update my resume, thanks for pointing that out." If they ask when you left, be honest and say "yea I must have missed that bit, it's been "to present" forever haha."
  - umichguy 8y ago
    That just sounds shady and wrong. Plus, I don't think anyone is really going to believe that a person who is actively looking for jobs has left his CV that sloppy. If it's a couple of months sure, but 1.5yrs? Hmmm..
- Aeolun 8y ago
  So basically, people see a one and a half year break, and wonder when he’s going to have his next burnout. It’s not really fair, but I can see the reasoning.
  - umichguy 8y ago
    Well, they can't/ shouldn't deduce that he had a burnout. That's something I know as a friend. He went traveling around the world, ticking off places from his list. It's a simple career break. People aren't/shouldn't be expected to work non-stop through out their lives.
- alchemism 8y ago
  I’ve taken 6 months off, a year off, even 5 years off (!) to have different life experiences in between IT gigs. In the case of your friend, perhaps suggest that they add an 18 month block of “consulting” work to the resume, rather than leave it as a gap, and see if the response rate changes.
zyberzero 8y ago
Just for the fun of it; what do you consider many short jobs? What do you consider a short job?
- komali2 8y ago
  Industry dependent. For Oil and Gas, one year is minimum length to be considered "ok." Below that is red flag and will either be skipped or if rest of resume is perfect, asked about. The only exception is if it's a project we all know - like a named Brownfield project on a certain refinery that everyone knows only lasted 8 months or whatever.
dorkwood 8y ago
The job title thing worries me. My current title is “designer” but I’ve ended up doing more front-end than design at my current workplace. I was hoping to find work as a developer elsewhere. Will I get filtered out because my title isn’t already “developer”? What should I do in that case?
- komali2 8y ago
  Swap your job title to "Designer, Front End Developer." Or leave it as "Designer," and then in the description, put something like "performed front end engineering duties such as..." Also make sure to highlight your use of JavaScript, whatever web framework, etc. "Coded React frontend in JavaScript" etc. All you're trying to do is get on the phone. Make sure your frontend skills are hot hot hot, you gotta be able to back this up. Throw an open source projects section on there and list your title as frontend engineer for those, whether they're personal or free work for the city or something (find volunteer civil hack meetups).
  - dorkwood 8y ago
    This is great advice. Thank you!
ravenstine 8y ago
> 1. Candidate probably local? {check address, if listed, else check location of previous roles} (required by our clients) So wait, are you going to dismiss my resume if I live far away, even though you don't know whether I'll actually want to move to your town on my own dime? This is something you should be figuring out in a phone screening, not just using your intuition by reading a resume.
- lozaning 8y ago
  Yes this absolutely happens, which i why I've let many a friend from back home use my silicon valley address on their resume when applying to jobs out here.
  - JessicaTG 8y ago
    You're a wonderful person :-) As an international resident, trying to get a job there has proven quite difficult whereas here (Sydney) it is easy. Although I do completely understand why recruiters are hesitant to employ people that reside out of area.
- komali2 8y ago
  >So wait, are you going to dismiss my resume if I live far away, even though you don't know whether I'll actually want to move to your town on my own dime? This is something you should be figuring out in a phone screening, not just using your intuition by reading a resume. Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. It was a saturated job market, we "should" doesn't really apply. A candidate already local is more likely to accept, there's no chance our client would have to do relocation, no need to worry about them not liking the city or whatever. More reasons to reject such a candidate than bother calling them.

outworlder 8y ago

What’s with this obsession with “gaps”? What are you trying to screen for? Is everyone supposed to be working non stop from their first job until they retire or die? I can sort of understand if it’s been years since the last position and the individual is applying for your company after being away from the market. But a gap in the middle of the job history? Why do you care ?

expertentipp 8y ago
> rants about the job hunting process you're out, mate
isoskeles 8y ago
Maybe they were in prison for murder! (I am also curious to hear why.)
komali2 8y ago
> What are you trying to screen for? People that can't keep a job, or get a job, often. It was Oil and Gas, so turnover was expected (projects finish, everyone goes away), but if consistently over the last decade or 2 they couldn't get on another project, it was a red flag. Not disqualifying, but a red flag. If it was a big gap ten years ago, nobody cares. If it was a single big gap less than 5 years ago, probably nobody cares, I'd just have to ask about it, because my client would want to know.
- Carpetsmoker 8y ago
  How big of a gap is a "big gap"? I have a 6 month gap before my current employer (of 2.5 years) because I spent some time doing stuff other than work with my savings. Should I fill that with "freelance, travel, and open source" or some such (even though I didn't do all that much freelance work)?
  - komali2 8y ago
    I would leave off the months on your resume so that it doesn't look like a gap. Or, put "2016 - Present," and then if they ask about what kind of notice you need to post, say "oh, I actually don't work there anymore, woops, I forgot to take off the 'to present' on my resume, thanks for bringing that up."
ravenstine 8y ago
I've been willingly unemployed for months and somehow it hasn't negatively affected my ability to get interviews. I think the obsession with gaps is dying out as the old guard retires. Companies run by boomers might think negatively of gaps, but ones run by Gen X'ers and beyond don't seem to care at all. Some of them have even been curious as to how I've been able to quit my job without another lined up!

C1sc0cat 8y ago

Well 1 Linked in stubbornly refuses to acknowledge that just because my post town is Milton Keynes - I don't live there I rejected an approach for a MK job last night on LI for this reason. And part of 6 indicates that you are looking for NeuroTypical's "interesting" :-)

maxxxxx 8y ago

"proudly listed membership of organizations like the KKK " That's actually an excellent filter :-). I bet a lot of employers will reject you but others probably will take you probably just for that reason.

mythrwy 8y ago
Klean Koders Klub?

umichguy 8y ago

What's the take on people who have had a career break of 1 to 2yrs? Through travel or medical situations or whatever. A friend of mine took a year and half off after having worked non-stop for ~15yrs (burnt out), went exploring and is now trying to get back into work but is having some difficulty for recruiters to call him back after applying. He never had any breaks in his work history before the recent and only one.

komali2 8y ago
Huge red flag. Put for the last job "2016-Present," and then if they ask about it, say "oh, I actually don't work there anymore, I need to update my resume, thanks for pointing that out." If they ask when you left, be honest and say "yea I must have missed that bit, it's been "to present" forever haha."
- umichguy 8y ago
  That just sounds shady and wrong. Plus, I don't think anyone is really going to believe that a person who is actively looking for jobs has left his CV that sloppy. If it's a couple of months sure, but 1.5yrs? Hmmm..
Aeolun 8y ago
So basically, people see a one and a half year break, and wonder when he’s going to have his next burnout. It’s not really fair, but I can see the reasoning.
- umichguy 8y ago
  Well, they can't/ shouldn't deduce that he had a burnout. That's something I know as a friend. He went traveling around the world, ticking off places from his list. It's a simple career break. People aren't/shouldn't be expected to work non-stop through out their lives.
alchemism 8y ago
I’ve taken 6 months off, a year off, even 5 years off (!) to have different life experiences in between IT gigs. In the case of your friend, perhaps suggest that they add an 18 month block of “consulting” work to the resume, rather than leave it as a gap, and see if the response rate changes.

zyberzero 8y ago

Just for the fun of it; what do you consider many short jobs? What do you consider a short job?

komali2 8y ago
Industry dependent. For Oil and Gas, one year is minimum length to be considered "ok." Below that is red flag and will either be skipped or if rest of resume is perfect, asked about. The only exception is if it's a project we all know - like a named Brownfield project on a certain refinery that everyone knows only lasted 8 months or whatever.

dorkwood 8y ago

The job title thing worries me. My current title is “designer” but I’ve ended up doing more front-end than design at my current workplace. I was hoping to find work as a developer elsewhere. Will I get filtered out because my title isn’t already “developer”? What should I do in that case?

komali2 8y ago
Swap your job title to "Designer, Front End Developer." Or leave it as "Designer," and then in the description, put something like "performed front end engineering duties such as..." Also make sure to highlight your use of JavaScript, whatever web framework, etc. "Coded React frontend in JavaScript" etc. All you're trying to do is get on the phone. Make sure your frontend skills are hot hot hot, you gotta be able to back this up. Throw an open source projects section on there and list your title as frontend engineer for those, whether they're personal or free work for the city or something (find volunteer civil hack meetups).
- dorkwood 8y ago
  This is great advice. Thank you!

ravenstine 8y ago

> 1. Candidate probably local? {check address, if listed, else check location of previous roles} (required by our clients) So wait, are you going to dismiss my resume if I live far away, even though you don't know whether I'll actually want to move to your town on my own dime? This is something you should be figuring out in a phone screening, not just using your intuition by reading a resume.

lozaning 8y ago
Yes this absolutely happens, which i why I've let many a friend from back home use my silicon valley address on their resume when applying to jobs out here.
- JessicaTG 8y ago
  You're a wonderful person :-) As an international resident, trying to get a job there has proven quite difficult whereas here (Sydney) it is easy. Although I do completely understand why recruiters are hesitant to employ people that reside out of area.
komali2 8y ago
>So wait, are you going to dismiss my resume if I live far away, even though you don't know whether I'll actually want to move to your town on my own dime? This is something you should be figuring out in a phone screening, not just using your intuition by reading a resume. Hey man, don't shoot the messenger. It was a saturated job market, we "should" doesn't really apply. A candidate already local is more likely to accept, there's no chance our client would have to do relocation, no need to worry about them not liking the city or whatever. More reasons to reject such a candidate than bother calling them.