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I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta: >> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-

by _zskd 8y ago

I've responded to this sort if inquiry before, so forgive the copy-pasta: >> You sound like you have anxiety problems. What have you done to address your anti-social tendencies? Are you going to a therapist? Do you expect a fairy to fly into your house and magic them away? What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? >> Having a therapist does not mean you are crazy, and you don't NEED to be crazy to have one. It means you have having a neutral person who helps you track and set goals, track your moods, and help you process work relationships and events. Michael Jordan has a coach, brain workers have therapists. ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277170 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18277170 ) One thing I want to make clear is that this is not going to go away without actual effort and planning on your part. I would recommend going to a therapist and having them help you process your social interactions and set goals for improving yourself. Which, overall, is what a therapist does. Way more than the cliche "Now let's talk about your father..." A lot of good information in here, as well. Read some books, it's good for you! It makes you smarter! People have taken time to write them for the last thousand years for a reason! You can spare the time away from social media to read a book, I promise. And the sense of achievement you get from finishing a book feels great. - "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read. - "Getting to Yes" is another excellent book about workplace conflict resolution. - There are a ton of books about emotional intelligence. Find one that sounds interesting to you and read it. I'll also recommend "Deep Work" and "Smarter, Faster, Better" for more general workplace productivity management, but feel free to sleep on those if you feel like it.

nostrebored 8y ago
Can't upvote this enough. Treating your social aversion like an immutable feature is ridiculous. If we had a dev who's bad at coding but good at other tasks, what would we do, say that they're just innately untalented or that they need practice? The fact of the matter is that devs are allowed to be complacent about social behavior through most of the social groups we run in and through our work. We're seen as antisocial because it's a muscle we don't flex.
- la6470 8y ago
  And we don’t need to. We should stand tall and be proud of who we are and show all the extroverts the middle finger. If someone wants to have a meaningful conversation I am all for it but I am not for mob mentality and trying to undermine someone just because they don’t like to interact. F off
naeemtee 8y ago
> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a robot attempting to be human. Which, believe me, is much worse than your (OP) presumably current state of looking like an awkward mute. HTWFAIP is like the "cold showers" of social anxiety advice. I'm confident most people who recommend this book (which is literally everyone) haven't actually read it. It's popular advice because it's popular advice, not because it's actually useful. Dale Carnegie's books were meant for everyday corporate workers to advance their workplace and sales communication skills - not for socially awkward developers who lack base social cues. Not only that, it was in a time with completely different social nuances - unless you really want to be an idiot carrying around a notebook of everyone's birthdays and asking questions 80% of the time your mouth opens. Social anxiety isn't cured by reading books on emotional intelligence and deep diving into the way you say things. Most self-professed "introverts", particularly developers, spent most of their lives playing video games and sitting indoors. They're not well-rounded people in the least. When you start slowly morphing your life to be more well rounded - taking part in group activities, getting hobbies, physical activity, etc. the social stuff takes care of itself. Your goal shouldn't be to excel at small talk - your goal should be to get to the point where your life is so cool you don't give a crap how you interact socially. Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't going to solve your social anxiety. Go play soccer.
- mediocrejoker 8y ago
  Maybe you could write more than three words about your experience and what positive suggestions you have for OP (ie. not "here's what bad advice" and instead "here is some good advice") Was soccer really the thing that helped you?
  - aero142 8y ago
    I agree with your criticism, but I'm going to add that I think the parent is correct. The thing that helped me the most was joining rec sports, meeting people through that, and socializing a lot. This took years, but I eventually got better at interacting with people. I think the best plan is to find a hobby that involves other people and do it a lot. Invest in learning skills like listening to people, telling stories well, playing party games and joking around with people. The biggest thing it that it takes years. Managing social anxiety is easier when you are better at socializing. That way you get anxious but then realize you know what to do and can push through from repetition. Just like public speaking and stage fright.
derefr 8y ago
> What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? These jobs do exist. Data entry, library clerk, trucker, for three. These are basically asocial. Also, there are jobs where—despite being "social" in the sense of requiring collaboration—this collaboration is structured and formalized, such that you just have to "do your part" without any room for getting to know anyone. For example, line cooks, orchestra members, and, of course, soldiers. I want to address a deeper assumption you've made here, though. You're making it seem like there are two types of people—people who have "solved" their problems (probably through therapy), and people who just "have" the problem and don't know what to do. But you know what? Social anxiety disorder (as opposed to an environmentally-induced social phobia) isn't something you can "solve." It's something you manage. And getting a job that's less social—or being less social in other aspects of life—is exactly one of the management strategies that a therapist will recommend. In the words of my girlfriend's psychiatrist: > As a sufferer of social anxiety, you only have so much social energy, so much willpower that you can dedicate to this task each day. You might be able to overcome a few obstacles successfully, but at some point you'll deplete your reserve of self-confidence, and the next time you attempt to interact with someone, you'll begin to spiral. This creates—and reinforces—a low self-evaluation of your social abilities, a dislike of socializing, and a sense of learned helplessness. > So, don't do that! Limit your exposure to social stimuli down to an amount you can handle each day, without becoming flustered. Hopefully you will be able to work your way up, but it's okay if that takes a very long time. Choose one part of your life you want to work on becoming more social in—work, romantic relationships, family, hobbies. In all other aspects of your life, restrict the amount of social contact, to decrease the likelihood of any "emergency expenses" of your social willpower popping up from those directions. You want to feel in control of social interactions—and the first step to doing that is to stop having scary, uncontrolled, overwhelming social interactions! Prune your life back to just the simple ones, and build up from there.
- S_Bear 8y ago
  > These jobs do exist. Data entry, library clerk, trucker, for three. These are basically asocial. I've been a librarian for 20 years. It's basically a combo of non-profit retail and fundraising. Unless you're an academic cataloger, asocial people don't last long in libraries.

by _zskd 8y ago

nostrebored 8y ago

Can't upvote this enough. Treating your social aversion like an immutable feature is ridiculous. If we had a dev who's bad at coding but good at other tasks, what would we do, say that they're just innately untalented or that they need practice? The fact of the matter is that devs are allowed to be complacent about social behavior through most of the social groups we run in and through our work. We're seen as antisocial because it's a muscle we don't flex.

la6470 8y ago
And we don’t need to. We should stand tall and be proud of who we are and show all the extroverts the middle finger. If someone wants to have a meaningful conversation I am all for it but I am not for mob mentality and trying to undermine someone just because they don’t like to interact. F off

naeemtee 8y ago

> "How to Win Friends and Influence People" is a must-read I'm sorry - this advice, and most of your comment, is bad advice. I struggled with social anxiety for 10 or 15 years before I "cured" myself, and advice like this is what buried me. Reading books and going to a therapist can supplement your efforts, but if that's your main approach you're going to waste years - and when you talk, you're going to sound like a robot attempting to be human. Which, believe me, is much worse than your (OP) presumably current state of looking like an awkward mute. HTWFAIP is like the "cold showers" of social anxiety advice. I'm confident most people who recommend this book (which is literally everyone) haven't actually read it. It's popular advice because it's popular advice, not because it's actually useful. Dale Carnegie's books were meant for everyday corporate workers to advance their workplace and sales communication skills - not for socially awkward developers who lack base social cues. Not only that, it was in a time with completely different social nuances - unless you really want to be an idiot carrying around a notebook of everyone's birthdays and asking questions 80% of the time your mouth opens. Social anxiety isn't cured by reading books on emotional intelligence and deep diving into the way you say things. Most self-professed "introverts", particularly developers, spent most of their lives playing video games and sitting indoors. They're not well-rounded people in the least. When you start slowly morphing your life to be more well rounded - taking part in group activities, getting hobbies, physical activity, etc. the social stuff takes care of itself. Your goal shouldn't be to excel at small talk - your goal should be to get to the point where your life is so cool you don't give a crap how you interact socially. Burying your head in books and overanalyzing your social interactions isn't going to solve your social anxiety. Go play soccer.

mediocrejoker 8y ago
Maybe you could write more than three words about your experience and what positive suggestions you have for OP (ie. not "here's what bad advice" and instead "here is some good advice") Was soccer really the thing that helped you?
- aero142 8y ago
  I agree with your criticism, but I'm going to add that I think the parent is correct. The thing that helped me the most was joining rec sports, meeting people through that, and socializing a lot. This took years, but I eventually got better at interacting with people. I think the best plan is to find a hobby that involves other people and do it a lot. Invest in learning skills like listening to people, telling stories well, playing party games and joking around with people. The biggest thing it that it takes years. Managing social anxiety is easier when you are better at socializing. That way you get anxious but then realize you know what to do and can push through from repetition. Just like public speaking and stage fright.

derefr 8y ago

> What job do you think exists where you don't need these skills? These jobs do exist. Data entry, library clerk, trucker, for three. These are basically asocial. Also, there are jobs where—despite being "social" in the sense of requiring collaboration—this collaboration is structured and formalized, such that you just have to "do your part" without any room for getting to know anyone. For example, line cooks, orchestra members, and, of course, soldiers. I want to address a deeper assumption you've made here, though. You're making it seem like there are two types of people—people who have "solved" their problems (probably through therapy), and people who just "have" the problem and don't know what to do. But you know what? Social anxiety disorder (as opposed to an environmentally-induced social phobia) isn't something you can "solve." It's something you manage. And getting a job that's less social—or being less social in other aspects of life—is exactly one of the management strategies that a therapist will recommend. In the words of my girlfriend's psychiatrist: > As a sufferer of social anxiety, you only have so much social energy, so much willpower that you can dedicate to this task each day. You might be able to overcome a few obstacles successfully, but at some point you'll deplete your reserve of self-confidence, and the next time you attempt to interact with someone, you'll begin to spiral. This creates—and reinforces—a low self-evaluation of your social abilities, a dislike of socializing, and a sense of learned helplessness. > So, don't do that! Limit your exposure to social stimuli down to an amount you can handle each day, without becoming flustered. Hopefully you will be able to work your way up, but it's okay if that takes a very long time. Choose one part of your life you want to work on becoming more social in—work, romantic relationships, family, hobbies. In all other aspects of your life, restrict the amount of social contact, to decrease the likelihood of any "emergency expenses" of your social willpower popping up from those directions. You want to feel in control of social interactions—and the first step to doing that is to stop having scary, uncontrolled, overwhelming social interactions! Prune your life back to just the simple ones, and build up from there.

S_Bear 8y ago
> These jobs do exist. Data entry, library clerk, trucker, for three. These are basically asocial. I've been a librarian for 20 years. It's basically a combo of non-profit retail and fundraising. Unless you're an academic cataloger, asocial people don't last long in libraries.