5 ms·

I think the mindset of the 60's was way different. Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts o

by newqer 8y ago

I think the mindset of the 60's was way different. Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word.

VBprogrammer 8y ago
I think the difference is that in the horse example one presumes the horse does not enjoy it and the aim is to breed the horse. In the dolphin example the dolphin appeared to have a romantic attachment to the lady researcher and thus enjoyed the experience. That's still weird in this day and age.
- ThrowMeDown01 8y ago
  > the horse does not enjoy it That's a bold statement. I don't even know where to begin, there are so many levels here. Like, why would you even make such a claim? I mean I'm not against the claim per se, but it does not seem like you have any evidence, or that you even looked for it. Seems to come right out of some human moral position instead, one that is not rooted in nature, given how many "weird" sex stories and video documentation we can find easily these days about all kinds of animals. Like dogs humping pillows, chimpanzee "using" a frog, quite a few stories about dolphins, etc. Back to the human/dolphin story here, there also is a pretty well-known (or at least well-published) "man had sex with female dolphin" story, example article: https://www.unilad.co.uk/animals/guy-who-had-sex-with-a-dolphin-explains-how-it-happened/ https://www.unilad.co.uk/animals/guy-who-had-sex-with-a-dolp...
  - VBprogrammer 8y ago
    Try not to get outraged by your own misquote. I clearly said "one presumes", as in without evidence. If there was a case where a horse was infatuated with the person doing the deed and the person was doing it for the sole purpose of the horses enjoyment then that'd be just as weird. Clearly the weirdness is rooted in human morality. I don't think it's unusual to judge the behaviours of humans differently to animals. Otherwise it'd be acceptable to fight to the death over "access" to females; sexual consent would be a very loose concept and defecation on street corners would be acceptable.
  - Balero 8y ago
    From a moral standpoint, it doesn't matter if the horse enjoys it. The point is the get the semen, not for the horse to enjoy it. Whereas with the dolphin example, the point was for the dolphin to enjoy it. There was no "morally purer" point.
    - mlevental 8y ago
      are you saying it's not non-consensual sex because the point is not for the horse to enjoy it but it is non-sensual sex with the dolphin because the point is for the dolphin to enjoy it.
      - Balero 8y ago
        I'm saying that intent informs morality. eg: Murder and Man Slaughter.
        mlevental 8y ago
        so if i rape someone and i didn't intend for them to enjoy it then it's not rape? or is it that the person hasn't been raped?
        krageon 8y ago
        You escalated your example a bit fast (putting it squarely in the territory of a maybe overly emotional argument), but you touch on a not unreasonable question. Does the horse's right to decide who it has sex with not factor into this decision at all?
        VBprogrammer 8y ago
        In an amusing twist of fate the horse would probably not exist had it not been for a long line of humans deciding which horses bred with which other horses to produce the breeds we know today.
        mlevental 8y ago
  - HocusLocus 8y ago
    Who could forget 'Mr. Zoo'...? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMslljAllgg&t=29m45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMslljAllgg&t=29m45s
netcan 8y ago
I think that agricultural breeding stuff also wierds people out a little, on first hearing. Our instinct to notice this sort of impropriaty is keen. But being an agriculture practice, goal-oriented... most people leave it at weird and move on. Here, there's more eccentricity. LSD, interspecies communication, alien languages, animal personhood.... It doesn't take many leaps to get to "drug fueled bestiality."
coldtea 8y ago
>Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word. That's perhaps a city thing. In farms people did similar things (to cows etc) all the time as part of routine job.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  Yup. This is literally where milk comes from.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    Yeah, that too, though I was thinking of this: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/reprod/semeneval/bull.html http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/reprod/semenev...
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - hammock 8y ago
    Goodness I hope not.
  - jki275 8y ago
    I'm relatively certain that's not where any milk I've ever had came from...
    - logfromblammo 8y ago
      Heifers don't produce milk until after calving. It's a whole lot easier managing artificial insemination than a live bull. So yes, that is where the milk comes from.
      - jki275 8y ago
        You missed the point...
- deleted 8y ago
mannykannot 8y ago
I notice that your analogy ends with the collection of the semen...
mc32 8y ago
As others pont out, the purpose matters. It’s like when people go to a sperm bank and do what thry need to do. The context is different. Context is important in these things.
dTal 8y ago
I think a better analogy is the q-tip method of relieving a female cat in heat. They have a need, it is interfering with day-to-day life, you help them out. I'm more intrigued by the moral code that finds sexually stimulating an animal on its request morally wrong, but force-feeding them LSD a-okay.

by newqer 8y ago

I think the mindset of the 60's was way different. Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word.

VBprogrammer 8y ago

I think the difference is that in the horse example one presumes the horse does not enjoy it and the aim is to breed the horse. In the dolphin example the dolphin appeared to have a romantic attachment to the lady researcher and thus enjoyed the experience. That's still weird in this day and age.

ThrowMeDown01 8y ago
> the horse does not enjoy it That's a bold statement. I don't even know where to begin, there are so many levels here. Like, why would you even make such a claim? I mean I'm not against the claim per se, but it does not seem like you have any evidence, or that you even looked for it. Seems to come right out of some human moral position instead, one that is not rooted in nature, given how many "weird" sex stories and video documentation we can find easily these days about all kinds of animals. Like dogs humping pillows, chimpanzee "using" a frog, quite a few stories about dolphins, etc. Back to the human/dolphin story here, there also is a pretty well-known (or at least well-published) "man had sex with female dolphin" story, example article: https://www.unilad.co.uk/animals/guy-who-had-sex-with-a-dolphin-explains-how-it-happened/ https://www.unilad.co.uk/animals/guy-who-had-sex-with-a-dolp...
- VBprogrammer 8y ago
  Try not to get outraged by your own misquote. I clearly said "one presumes", as in without evidence. If there was a case where a horse was infatuated with the person doing the deed and the person was doing it for the sole purpose of the horses enjoyment then that'd be just as weird. Clearly the weirdness is rooted in human morality. I don't think it's unusual to judge the behaviours of humans differently to animals. Otherwise it'd be acceptable to fight to the death over "access" to females; sexual consent would be a very loose concept and defecation on street corners would be acceptable.
- Balero 8y ago
  From a moral standpoint, it doesn't matter if the horse enjoys it. The point is the get the semen, not for the horse to enjoy it. Whereas with the dolphin example, the point was for the dolphin to enjoy it. There was no "morally purer" point.
  - mlevental 8y ago
    are you saying it's not non-consensual sex because the point is not for the horse to enjoy it but it is non-sensual sex with the dolphin because the point is for the dolphin to enjoy it.
    - Balero 8y ago
      I'm saying that intent informs morality. eg: Murder and Man Slaughter.
      - mlevental 8y ago
        so if i rape someone and i didn't intend for them to enjoy it then it's not rape? or is it that the person hasn't been raped?
        krageon 8y ago
        You escalated your example a bit fast (putting it squarely in the territory of a maybe overly emotional argument), but you touch on a not unreasonable question. Does the horse's right to decide who it has sex with not factor into this decision at all?
        VBprogrammer 8y ago
        In an amusing twist of fate the horse would probably not exist had it not been for a long line of humans deciding which horses bred with which other horses to produce the breeds we know today.
        mlevental 8y ago
- HocusLocus 8y ago
  Who could forget 'Mr. Zoo'...? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMslljAllgg&t=29m45s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WMslljAllgg&t=29m45s

netcan 8y ago

I think that agricultural breeding stuff also wierds people out a little, on first hearing. Our instinct to notice this sort of impropriaty is keen. But being an agriculture practice, goal-oriented... most people leave it at weird and move on. Here, there's more eccentricity. LSD, interspecies communication, alien languages, animal personhood.... It doesn't take many leaps to get to "drug fueled bestiality."

coldtea 8y ago

>Today nobody blinks twice when a horse needs to be manually gotten-off to ship off the semen to other parts of the word. That's perhaps a city thing. In farms people did similar things (to cows etc) all the time as part of routine job.

nerdponx 8y ago
Yup. This is literally where milk comes from.
- coldtea 8y ago
  Yeah, that too, though I was thinking of this: http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/reprod/semeneval/bull.html http://www.vivo.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/reprod/semenev...
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- hammock 8y ago
  Goodness I hope not.
- jki275 8y ago
  I'm relatively certain that's not where any milk I've ever had came from...
  - logfromblammo 8y ago
    Heifers don't produce milk until after calving. It's a whole lot easier managing artificial insemination than a live bull. So yes, that is where the milk comes from.
    - jki275 8y ago
      You missed the point...
deleted 8y ago

mannykannot 8y ago

I notice that your analogy ends with the collection of the semen...

mc32 8y ago

As others pont out, the purpose matters. It’s like when people go to a sperm bank and do what thry need to do. The context is different. Context is important in these things.

dTal 8y ago

I think a better analogy is the q-tip method of relieving a female cat in heat. They have a need, it is interfering with day-to-day life, you help them out. I'm more intrigued by the moral code that finds sexually stimulating an animal on its request morally wrong, but force-feeding them LSD a-okay.