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Crypto is going to come back with vengeance. Maybe not bitcoin and maybe not in the next 6 months, but people have seen the future and they want more. In order

• lbotos 8y ago
  > Crypto is going to come back with vengeance. Bold statement. > Right now there isn't such a way and crypto might solve it. weak support. Why do people need to exchange tiny amounts of money? EDIT for clarity: Why do people need Crypto to exchange tiny amounts of money?
  • mattdeboard 8y ago
    People already exchange tiny amounts of money. It's done through this cutting edge service called "banking." I think the implication of the GP's comment is that he considers blockchain/cryptocurrency tech a replacement for banking.
    • dlubarov 8y ago
      What banking service are you referring to? Credit networks, debit networks, ACH, something else? AFAIK none of them are practical for micropayments, in the US at least. It's possible that the banking industry could invent a network on which micropayments are practical, but it hasn't happened yet.
  • sdenton4 8y ago
    Completely disagree with the op re bit coin, but I do agree that people need easy ways to handle small transactions seamlessly. Mpesa and venmo provide plenty of reasonable use cases...
  • imglorp 8y ago
    Micropayments is the perfect use case. My vision is you would stock a wallet with, say $50, and then authorize a few of your regular sites in your client. Every time you loaded a new story, it might deduct $.01 for example. Perhaps not with this tech, but one similar with fast transactions and tiny fees. See Iota for example. Shifting from an ad driven to paid publisher/subscriber model has many advantages. Ideally you'd have a tech to support it which was a) not centralized, b) anonymous customer but visible vendor, and c) low transaction fees. This rules out credit cards and bitcoin but there are others.
    • akhilcacharya 8y ago
      I really don't understand these examples for micropayments, they're always for things I wouldn't pay for anyway.
      • imglorp 8y ago
        Oh? Do you fund anyone on Patreon? Is there no content you think is worthwhile, quality reading, that you'd pay a little to contribute your share, instead of ads and malware?
        • akhilcacharya 8y ago
          I don’t and nobody I know does either.
    • creeble 8y ago
      I think all these visions for micro payments have been swamped by advertising as a source for revenue. I dislike that fact, but I don't think most people care. So micro payments are just a way to make less money than advertising-based models.
      • adamnemecek 8y ago
        Lol are you aware of the backlash against advertising?
  • creeble 8y ago
    I'm not sure people need a lot of ways to exchange tiny amounts of money either, but the existing ones like Venmo work really well. Without a blockchain. And fast, too!
• hendzen 8y ago
  "people have seen the future and they want more" Citation needed. The impression I get is that other than a get rich quick/MLM scheme, there isn't really anything there of interest to the general population. And I say that as someone who has spent a lot of time thinking about Bitcoin and crypto in general.
  • jjtheblunt 8y ago
    Agreed totally.
  • mattdeboard 8y ago
    You can tell everyone wants it by the way demand has crashed through the floor
    • adamnemecek 8y ago
      It crashed as currently the technology isn't quite there, however it will be eventually.
    • pc86 8y ago
      Disclaimer: I made about 13x total ROI speculating on Bitcoin during its volatility between the $1200-8k range. I wouldn't touch it with a 10' pole now. Demand has crashed because speculation is much more difficult now, and it's much easier to get into a position where your only choices are (a) sell at a huge loss; or, (b) hold and hope it goes up and you can get out even. A few years ago when it was much more volatile unless you were very unlucky with your timing you didn't have to wait more than a month or two to be able to sell with substantial gains, and wait for another drop to buy back in (or buy in pieces on the way down).
  • pixelperfect 8y ago
    It seems to have widespread utility in countries with severe currency problems like Venezuela. But I agree, for countries with healthy economies, I don't see why crypto would attain mainstream adoption for much more than black market transactions.
  • 8y ago
• fredley 8y ago
  Are you joking? Bitcoin is a terrible medium for exchange of small quantities of money. A few places around where I live set up bitcoin payment machines a few years ago. They all gave up. Transaction processing times reached over 30 minutes at the slowest times. Cash is already the perfect medium for exchanging small amounts of money.
  • metachris 8y ago
    > Cash is already the perfect medium for exchanging small amounts of money. Yes in person, but not over the internet. Crypto currencies definitely have potential for exchanging small amount of money there!
  • dlubarov 8y ago
    The parent wasn't talking about Bitcoin in particular though. Newer systems like Tendermint finalize transactions after a few seconds by running a consensus algorithm after each block. We're working on a system with a different consensus algorithm which should have subsecond latency. There are also layer 2 systems which can provide almost instant latency, albeit with some caveats.
  • dqpb 8y ago
    Oh yeah? Try exchanging a small amount of cash from the US with someone in Africa. Cash doesn't solve this problem. In fact there is no good current solution to this problem.
    • Applethief 8y ago
      What are your thoughts on Ripple / XRP?
  • sunshiney 8y ago
    Perhaps but cash is disgusting. Have you read how 90 percent of cash is covered with cocaine? Not to mention all the creepy crawlies on it... ewww...
• mamon 8y ago
  The problem is that current cryptocurrencies are not good for such use case. You cannot use Bitcoin for "tiny amounts of money" and for sure you cannot use it "easily". So cryptocurrencies might win in the long run, just not the currently existing ones.
• mattdeboard 8y ago
  So just out of curiosity re: exchanging tiny amounts of money, are you suggesting that cryptocurrency and blockchain tech replace banks? Because there are loads of ways to exchange tiny amounts of money...
  • buboard 8y ago
    Like? For example how to do micropayments on the web?
    • adamnemecek 8y ago
      And with an easy setup.
    • tomjakubowski 8y ago
      Venmo, Square Cash, Patreon. There's this espresso bar in LA that only takes cash or Venmo.
      • buboard 8y ago
        venmo & sq cash are not available here, and patreon are you serious? None of them beats the simplicity of an app wallet and semi-anonymous payments, kind of like a cash replacement.
        • sunshiney 8y ago
          agree with you but we have so much education to do of normal, every day people. It's too techy for too many.. so they don't see what you and I are seeing.
• nambit 8y ago
  lmao. People have seen the future and it is decentralized fax machines
• lsiunsuex 8y ago
  (not an investor nor a banker) "At its peak, in November 2017, it briefly hit $19,783 - which means the price has fallen by about 75%." If this were a real stock market and those were real $$$s, isn't that the kind of crash that causes great depressions or investors jumping out of windows (movie trope, but not really) How can something so volatile possibly be worth pursuing or investing in, other then get rich quick schemes.
  • adamnemecek 8y ago
    It's the first one. The fact that it was able to gain that much value and mind share is astounding.
  • aboodman 8y ago
    I think you have your answer: the stock market has had massive declines, and yet people still pursue and invest in stocks.
  • dqpb 8y ago
    Surely the speculative value of bitcoin is independent of the inherent value of cryptocurrency technology. You wouldn't argue that cash isn't viable because some countries economies have crashed.
    • dragonwriter 8y ago
      > You wouldn't argue that cash isn't viable because some countries economies have crashed. That's actually exactly the argument I've seen from many Bitcoin proponents, ironically enough.
    • fisherjeff 8y ago
      > You wouldn't argue that cash isn't viable because some countries economies have crashed On the other hand, I would say a country's economy weren't viable if their cash had crashed.
  • superfrank 8y ago
    I agree that I think crypto is pretty much dead in the water, but comparing it's volatility to the stock market as a whole is kind of silly. Sure, if the S&P/Dow/Nasdaq fell 75% people would be jumping out the window, but it's also never risen 300% in a few months like crypto did. Crypto needs to be evaluated against other speculative investments and not against a long term vehicle like a major index.
• mygo 8y ago
  > people have seen the future and they want more. Normally when there's a demonstrated demand for something, its price doesn't go down by 75% year over year. Well, outside of government price controlling You could be right, but it doesn't appear that the thing will be bitcoin, at least not unless it's a different thing sharing the same name. The promise of bitcoin was a currency. But so far, it's not being used as a currency, people are treating it more like gold than cash. Until people are actually using it in day to day transactions, it's just a collectible. Now I have been payed in Etherium by a client a couple times, but it's such a hassle. That money's just sitting around because I don't even want to deal with the exchanges.
  • adamnemecek 8y ago
    I said crypto not bitcoin. And the current generation of cryptos isn't quite there yet.
    • mygo 8y ago
      Ah, gotcha. Sometimes people don't discern between the two. What's your definition of there? Being able to do micro-transactions? quick transactions? Would transaction fees matter?
• vbezhenar 8y ago
  As a customer, I'm OK with banks and similar centralized institutions to handle small payments. I can take risk of losing $100 if I'm banned. As a seller, on the other hand, I don't like any notion of centralized institution, because my account will have much more money and block will be painful. But, I guess, I won't have much choice. Now Bitcoin has much more value for me, as a tool to store money and transfer big payments. There's no easy way to transfer few thousand bucks between countries without dealing with state agencies, there's huge risk of frozen account, there's huge risk of being robbed, etc. Storing money is the same: your house could be robbed, your bank could default. Bitcoin solving those problems perfectly, aside from its fluctuating price, of course, but that couldn't be solved with algorithms anyway.