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Well, obviously it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Because I'd think it's fairly obvious that standing still doesn't exactly bu

Well, obviously it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Because I'd think it's fairly obvious that standing still doesn't exactly burn the calories off. The key is moderation, like with everything. Alternate between sitting and standing. This past year I've started to get problems with my legs caused by sitting. Exercise relieves it, but the aches return when I sit down again. I just spend too much time sitting down (I work remotely as a programmer, and I'm also a musician). Swapping to alternating sitting/standing makes a big difference in this regard, and I had hoped to get a new desk 6 months ago, but due to house purchase trouble (and the fact my flat is too small to swap out this desk); I'm still stuck at my current desk. Hopefully it won't be too much longer now; I do worry what permanent damage is happening. Sit/stand desks have an added bonus of letting you adjust the height of the desk when sat down, which makes a big difference. Chair choice is a big part of it. I do think pretty much all office chairs are designed wrong, in that they have a solid base and a cushion on top. Once you bottom-out (hurr) the cushion, you're sat on a hard surface, and that's most likely part of my issue. Aeron chairs are good in this regard, in that they're a suspended mesh with no hard surface underneath. I quite like sitting on the floor as well, and I'm hoping to accommodate for that in my office design for my house. I think a wider variety of positions could only help to spread the strain.

sithadmin 8y ago
>due to house purchase trouble (and the fact my flat is too small to swap out this desk); I'm still stuck at my current desk. Have you considered a standing desk converter for your existing desk (e.g. from Varidesk, though there are quite a few other vendors out there with more reasonable pricing)? It's made a huge difference for me in some situations where the existing desk could not be swapped out.
- mdekkers 8y ago
  Have you considered a standing desk converter for your existing desk When I wanted to try a standing desk, I just put my desk on some breezeblocks...
anonymousDan 8y ago
Honestly there is absolutely no need to splash out on expensive standing desks. I literally have two upturned plastic crates on my desk to support my monitor, and then two stacks of books to support my keyboard and also my mouse. Total cost about 5$. The important point is to make sure the height of the boxes or whatever you use is adjusted to eye level and roughly elbow level for the keyboard. The only downside is if you want to switch between sitting and standing, but frankly it's easier to just use a laptop for sitting for a little while until you get used to standing for longer.
- jseliger 8y ago
  Many people, myself included, want sit-stand desks that don't wobble. That's where the cost comes in. https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-de...
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    Bracing it against the wall is sufficient in my experience.
  - asdff 8y ago
    I've never seen a stack of textbooks wobble. Although they might cost more than the desk!
- lodi 8y ago
  Ikea has a motorized desk now for about $400: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022538/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022538/ It's slightly wobbly at max height, but otherwise not bad.
- jackhack 8y ago
  I've no idea why you were downvoted. The idea of a $20 solution for trying-out a standing desk (two crates upturned and a plank of wood on top) vs. a commitment of $300-$400 seems like a worthwhile contribution. And as far as a criticism of it being "wobbly" -- i've seen automobiles perched on top of plastic milk-bottle crates. Not that I'd recommend it, but surely one will safely hold a relatively breezy laptop and a monitor (15kg total?) Amazon even sells a multi-level cardboard standing desk for $25 that's perhaps a touch more attractive than a milk crate: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Ergodriven-Perfect-Standing-Medium/dp/B01GGNV6VQ https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Ergodriven-Perfect-Standing-Med... So give it a try. See if a more neutral head-up posture and straight spine are agreeable. If so, consider an upgrade to a "real" standing desk. If not, no real risk or loss.
Bartweiss 8y ago
> it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Not directly, but part of their popularity does seem to be a response to studies showing that exercise doesn't offset sitting. There were a few pretty convincing results in a row concluding that extended sitting is harmful in itself, regardless of exercise frequency. Given that many other studies show extended standing is also bad, I think the question worth investigating here is whether position changes offset that or whether interspersing actual movement is required. (More speculatively, a major leg-bouncing habit or an 'active' base for sitting or standing might help.) > Sit/stand desks have an added bonus of letting you adjust the height of the desk when sat down, which makes a big difference. This is reason enough for me to value a sit/stand desk - even if I never stand up, the ergonomics of controlling desk height are a huge benefit. Guides to adjusting chair height for that are fine, but I want to adjust my chair relative to the floor so that my feet lie flat, then my desk to my chair. (And then, ideally, my monitor and keyboard separately also). I agree that bad chairs are almost certainly a big factor, in the ways you describe. Circulation issues and back pain are two of the biggest issues with sitting, and they match up to pressure from the chair bottom and poor lumbar support. In addition to the padding issue you mentioned, chairs with back support are usually worse for me, because the back support is often fixed in place and only correct for people of one specific height. Either getting a high quality chair or being able to change positions often seem like the most obvious improvements.
matwood 8y ago
If you work at home, it should be easy to run through a quick stretching workout at some point during the day. I can't recommend Peter Attia enough for this: https://peterattiamd.com/move-defines-live/ https://peterattiamd.com/move-defines-live/ I do some version of the above before every weight workout (so almost every day). And, I'll do some other version randomly throughout the day when I need a break.
krooj 8y ago
Just in case you haven't done it yet, go see the doctor when you get those aches, since they might not be benign. One of the darker sides of sitting all the time is haemostasis: your blood isn't moving enough. That's a condition which can lead to deep venous thrombosis - blood clots. You really, really don't want a DVT. Stay hydrated and move - preferably every 20-30 minutes.
asdff 8y ago
Try just taking a walk every hour before you shell out for a desk that may or may not help you. It is much easier to maintain focus for a whole day if you take small breaks every hour as well, and it helps with eyestrain to focus at far distances if you are in front of a monitor all day.

sithadmin 8y ago

>due to house purchase trouble (and the fact my flat is too small to swap out this desk); I'm still stuck at my current desk. Have you considered a standing desk converter for your existing desk (e.g. from Varidesk, though there are quite a few other vendors out there with more reasonable pricing)? It's made a huge difference for me in some situations where the existing desk could not be swapped out.

mdekkers 8y ago
Have you considered a standing desk converter for your existing desk When I wanted to try a standing desk, I just put my desk on some breezeblocks...

anonymousDan 8y ago

Honestly there is absolutely no need to splash out on expensive standing desks. I literally have two upturned plastic crates on my desk to support my monitor, and then two stacks of books to support my keyboard and also my mouse. Total cost about 5$. The important point is to make sure the height of the boxes or whatever you use is adjusted to eye level and roughly elbow level for the keyboard. The only downside is if you want to switch between sitting and standing, but frankly it's easier to just use a laptop for sitting for a little while until you get used to standing for longer.

jseliger 8y ago
Many people, myself included, want sit-stand desks that don't wobble. That's where the cost comes in. https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-desk-review-two-years-with-a-motorized-desk https://jakeseliger.com/2015/01/24/geekdesk-max-sit-stand-de...
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  Bracing it against the wall is sufficient in my experience.
- asdff 8y ago
  I've never seen a stack of textbooks wobble. Although they might cost more than the desk!
lodi 8y ago
Ikea has a motorized desk now for about $400: https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022538/ https://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/S49022538/ It's slightly wobbly at max height, but otherwise not bad.
jackhack 8y ago
I've no idea why you were downvoted. The idea of a $20 solution for trying-out a standing desk (two crates upturned and a plank of wood on top) vs. a commitment of $300-$400 seems like a worthwhile contribution. And as far as a criticism of it being "wobbly" -- i've seen automobiles perched on top of plastic milk-bottle crates. Not that I'd recommend it, but surely one will safely hold a relatively breezy laptop and a monitor (15kg total?) Amazon even sells a multi-level cardboard standing desk for $25 that's perhaps a touch more attractive than a milk crate: https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Ergodriven-Perfect-Standing-Medium/dp/B01GGNV6VQ https://www.amazon.com/Spark-Ergodriven-Perfect-Standing-Med... So give it a try. See if a more neutral head-up posture and straight spine are agreeable. If so, consider an upgrade to a "real" standing desk. If not, no real risk or loss.

Bartweiss 8y ago

> it's not a replacement for exercise. Was anyone ever claiming that? Not directly, but part of their popularity does seem to be a response to studies showing that exercise doesn't offset sitting. There were a few pretty convincing results in a row concluding that extended sitting is harmful in itself, regardless of exercise frequency. Given that many other studies show extended standing is also bad, I think the question worth investigating here is whether position changes offset that or whether interspersing actual movement is required. (More speculatively, a major leg-bouncing habit or an 'active' base for sitting or standing might help.) > Sit/stand desks have an added bonus of letting you adjust the height of the desk when sat down, which makes a big difference. This is reason enough for me to value a sit/stand desk - even if I never stand up, the ergonomics of controlling desk height are a huge benefit. Guides to adjusting chair height for that are fine, but I want to adjust my chair relative to the floor so that my feet lie flat, then my desk to my chair. (And then, ideally, my monitor and keyboard separately also). I agree that bad chairs are almost certainly a big factor, in the ways you describe. Circulation issues and back pain are two of the biggest issues with sitting, and they match up to pressure from the chair bottom and poor lumbar support. In addition to the padding issue you mentioned, chairs with back support are usually worse for me, because the back support is often fixed in place and only correct for people of one specific height. Either getting a high quality chair or being able to change positions often seem like the most obvious improvements.

matwood 8y ago

If you work at home, it should be easy to run through a quick stretching workout at some point during the day. I can't recommend Peter Attia enough for this: https://peterattiamd.com/move-defines-live/ https://peterattiamd.com/move-defines-live/ I do some version of the above before every weight workout (so almost every day). And, I'll do some other version randomly throughout the day when I need a break.

krooj 8y ago

Just in case you haven't done it yet, go see the doctor when you get those aches, since they might not be benign. One of the darker sides of sitting all the time is haemostasis: your blood isn't moving enough. That's a condition which can lead to deep venous thrombosis - blood clots. You really, really don't want a DVT. Stay hydrated and move - preferably every 20-30 minutes.

asdff 8y ago

Try just taking a walk every hour before you shell out for a desk that may or may not help you. It is much easier to maintain focus for a whole day if you take small breaks every hour as well, and it helps with eyestrain to focus at far distances if you are in front of a monitor all day.