8 ms·

I'm an olive and almond producer in Portugal. In preparation for this very serious issue, since that the only thing I can do is to minimize the risk of infecti

by chicob 8y ago

I'm an olive and almond producer in Portugal. In preparation for this very serious issue, since that the only thing I can do is to minimize the risk of infection, I tell all personnel to spray bleach on trimming scissors for each tree, the case of high density orchards, and for every 10-15 trees (or each row) in super high density orchards. I also try to monitor for infection vectors like Cicadellidae, and for possible ill trees in the vicinities. I will report any suspect case to the authorities, be it my neighbours' or my own. I am also looking for affordable insurance that covers this kind of problem. Also related to new agricultural issues arising from globalisation and worthy of attention are the zebra mussel (Dreissena polymorpha), the water hyacinth (Eichhornia ssp.), and the Asian clam (Corbicula fluminea) that obstruct irrigation pipes.

libertine 8y ago
Portuguese (Alentejano) fellow with some olive trees (not aimed at production) - if this spreads do you think it will start in the south or it won't matter?
- chicob 8y ago
  Olá! I don't think it will matter, because many times the problem starts at the nursery. There are many nurseries, both inside the EU but also outside, like Morocco for example. When orchards are being installed across the country, it really could start anywhere. Weather does not seem to have any importance in the spreading of the disease. What happened with the palm weevil (Rhynchophorus ferrugineus) doesn't necessarily apply here: X. fastidiosa infects a wide range of plants including ornamental plants, so it is really a matter of 'when', not 'if' or 'where'.[1] As of February 2017, there were 132 confirmed cases in Balearic Islands that are now considered lost for the bacteria.[1] As far as I know, there are no confirmed cases in Morocco, which is why many farmers look there for safe nurseries. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylella_fastidiosa#Hosts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylella_fastidiosa#Hosts [2]https://www.elmundo.es/baleares/2017/02/28/58b5aec5e2704e06758b4588.html https://www.elmundo.es/baleares/2017/02/28/58b5aec5e2704e067... (Spanish)
smackay 8y ago
I spent a few days in around Beja in Baixo Alentejo this year, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja,_Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja,_Portugal The area with new new olive plantations is simply staggering as producers race to capitalize on the shortages in other Mediterranean countries. The fields (in effect, mini prairies) are so large I think this is only going to hasten the spread of disease it will simply be impossible to exercise proper hygiene or quarantine procedures over such large areas. I wish all growers were as responsible and fore-sighted as you, good luck.
- chicob 8y ago
  Thanks! One way to minimize the risk is to quarantine the batches in stub nurseries, and to be as zealous as one can regarding the sanitary passports. In the past, Alentejo had many orchards that, thanks to the State policy of the dictatorial regime, were drastically replaced by large fields for cereal production. This resulted in what is now known as the pseudo-steppe (of a particular ecological interest), which is recognized today as the traditional landscape of Alentejo. Many regret the sudden change into olive production, but few know how things were different a century ago.
  - phillmv 8y ago
    E como era a região, antigamente, antes do Estado Novo? Que interessante. Só aí à dois anos é que aprendi que o eucalipto que tanto cobria o mato ao redor da aldeia, quando eu era pequeno, não é natural na europa.
    - chicob 8y ago
      Segundo sei havia mais árvores de fruto: laranjais, pomares, figueiras, e também amendoais. Os olivais eram de sequeiro, e no meio fazia-se cereal.
jimbokun 8y ago
I'm curious, what brought you to Hacker News? It's fascinating the variety of people who contribute here, and I'm wondering what would bring a Portuguese farmer to a site centered around technology and entrepreneurship. (I suppose I could equally ask why this site would be discussing a bacterial outbreak in Italian olive trees, and the answer could be "because it's interesting" to both questions.)
- buboard 8y ago
  It is not uncommon to own olive orchards in southern europe (a family thing). I have olives too.
  - pingec 8y ago
    Same here, family tradition. Hello from Slovenia. We are also closely monitoring the situation in Italy. There are other plants that can be infected by X. fastidiosa and should be monitored for signs of disease for example here we are worried about oleander plants that were imported from South Italy.
    - monodeldiablo 8y ago
      Ditto (from Croatia). I never understood the obsession with oleander around these parts. It's (in my humble opinion) not any prettier than "native" ornamentals, and it's toxic to boot. Add to that list that it's apparently an eager vector for X. fastidiosa...
  - anon2775 8y ago
    Olive trees are planted decoratively and for crops here, but they're messy trees to have in city neighborhoods.
    - chicob 8y ago
      The wild variety (Olea oleaster) is not as messy.
- 8y ago
swsieber 8y ago
Zebra mussels are a big problem where I grew up. The bay of Green Bay is very unfriendly to the barefoot swimmer because of them (they leave sharp little shells behind). I can't really think of a way to get rid of them short of making some sort of robotic fleet to go and kill them all. Even worse, the DNR doesn't really want to get involved for fear of upsetting the ecosystem. Someone went as far as to make a machine that makes faux sand from zebra mussel shells (which pile up everywhere along the shore), but he got shutdown because of the unknown environmental impact.
hinkley 8y ago
I’m unfamiliar with the particulars here. Do you have to plant olives and almonds in different fields or do they mostly like the same sun soil and water conditions? There has been a push by some people to plant multiple perennials in the same fields to improve soil quality but also to reduce the ease of spread of pathogens (because the next potential host is far away by insect and spore standards). Would it make sense in this case, especially if you’re cleaning tools as a prophylaxis as well?
- chicob 8y ago
  They're in different fields. Almond trees are more susceptible to soil moisture and need better drainage. Pest control is different, and having them all together means farmers would have to spray both crops for a problem only one of them has, and a given pesticide may be allowed for almond trees but not for olive trees (e.g. the insecticide phosmet is not allowed in olive trees destined for olive oil; lambda-cyhalothrin applications are limited to two per campaign in olive orchards; many recommend against using glyphosate for weed control in the first years of an almond orchard.) There are some annuals that might be interesting, such as clover, that help with erosion and nitrogen fixation. Native plants serve as buffers for auxiliary species and some (Brassicaceae) act as a prophylactic against fungal infections (Verticillium). Innoculation with mycorrhizae also helps. Perennials might be interesting in riparian zones, to help with drainage and unusual surges of flow.
sizzle 8y ago
Are there any sensors you can use to monitor health of trees programmatically?
sizzle 8y ago
Are there any sensors you can use to monitor health of trees programmatically? "These plant defenses do not seem to hinder the movement of X. fastidiosa. Occlusion of vascular tissue, while a normal plant response to infection, makes symptoms significantly worse: as the bacteria itself also reduces vascular function, a 90% reduction of vascular hydraulic function was seen in susceptible Vitis vinifera." Some type of low energy Bluetooth moisture sensors or a sensor you can stick in the tree itself to monitor reduction in "vascular hydraulic function? of it's xylem tissue?
- anon2775 8y ago
  That wouldn't scale because of the range and topology of BLE. Solar-powered micropower 900 MHz modules with built-in microcontrollers would be a basis for a viable solution. 900 MHz carries much further for a given power and isn't as susceptible to attenuation due to foilage. Source: did industrial 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz module testing, once upon a time.
  - sizzle 8y ago
    Very cool, thanks for the info!
anon2775 8y ago
I'm curious: Are there growing concerns and stress about rain patterns (climate/weather), desertification and irrigation water rights?
- chicob 8y ago
  Yes. Climate change has brought difficulties in weather forecasting and dam management. Major rivers in Portugal have their sources in Spain, which gives this country a relative position of power in water storage in times of need. In the past, Portugal did make the case that Spain did not respect the law regarding water usage. Weather extremes are also important because of damage and insurance coverage. Irrigation based in artificial reservoirs creates the risk of salination, which is already being monitored. I get regular reports on the quality of the water I use.
thrusong 8y ago
Lake Winnipeg, near Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, is the 11th largest fresh water lake in the world and became infected with zebra mussels in 2015. Already, things are looking bleak.
techopoly 8y ago
I know next to nothing in this area, but what is the possibility of grafting non-susceptible varietals onto the olive trees? I know that worked for France back when they grafted Texan vines onto their own during the grape phylloxera epidemic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight
- chicob 8y ago
  There are no known cultivars of olive that are resistant to X. fastidiosa. Phylloxera attacks the root, and so grafting with resistant stocks protects the scion. In the case of X. fastidiosa, the bacteria can spread on the whole adult structures of the plant when infected vectors feed on the xylem, so grafting is not a solution. In Portugal, Phylloxera became a synonym for madness, since the losses were colossal. I fear that Xylella fastidiosa might become the next "madness"...

by chicob 8y ago

libertine 8y ago

Portuguese (Alentejano) fellow with some olive trees (not aimed at production) - if this spreads do you think it will start in the south or it won't matter?

chicob 8y ago
Olá! I don't think it will matter, because many times the problem starts at the nursery. There are many nurseries, both inside the EU but also outside, like Morocco for example. When orchards are being installed across the country, it really could start anywhere. Weather does not seem to have any importance in the spreading of the disease. What happened with the palm weevil (Rhynchophorus ferrugineus) doesn't necessarily apply here: X. fastidiosa infects a wide range of plants including ornamental plants, so it is really a matter of 'when', not 'if' or 'where'.[1] As of February 2017, there were 132 confirmed cases in Balearic Islands that are now considered lost for the bacteria.[1] As far as I know, there are no confirmed cases in Morocco, which is why many farmers look there for safe nurseries. [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylella_fastidiosa#Hosts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xylella_fastidiosa#Hosts [2]https://www.elmundo.es/baleares/2017/02/28/58b5aec5e2704e06758b4588.html https://www.elmundo.es/baleares/2017/02/28/58b5aec5e2704e067... (Spanish)

smackay 8y ago

I spent a few days in around Beja in Baixo Alentejo this year, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja,_Portugal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beja,_Portugal The area with new new olive plantations is simply staggering as producers race to capitalize on the shortages in other Mediterranean countries. The fields (in effect, mini prairies) are so large I think this is only going to hasten the spread of disease it will simply be impossible to exercise proper hygiene or quarantine procedures over such large areas. I wish all growers were as responsible and fore-sighted as you, good luck.

chicob 8y ago
Thanks! One way to minimize the risk is to quarantine the batches in stub nurseries, and to be as zealous as one can regarding the sanitary passports. In the past, Alentejo had many orchards that, thanks to the State policy of the dictatorial regime, were drastically replaced by large fields for cereal production. This resulted in what is now known as the pseudo-steppe (of a particular ecological interest), which is recognized today as the traditional landscape of Alentejo. Many regret the sudden change into olive production, but few know how things were different a century ago.
- phillmv 8y ago
  E como era a região, antigamente, antes do Estado Novo? Que interessante. Só aí à dois anos é que aprendi que o eucalipto que tanto cobria o mato ao redor da aldeia, quando eu era pequeno, não é natural na europa.
  - chicob 8y ago
    Segundo sei havia mais árvores de fruto: laranjais, pomares, figueiras, e também amendoais. Os olivais eram de sequeiro, e no meio fazia-se cereal.

jimbokun 8y ago

I'm curious, what brought you to Hacker News? It's fascinating the variety of people who contribute here, and I'm wondering what would bring a Portuguese farmer to a site centered around technology and entrepreneurship. (I suppose I could equally ask why this site would be discussing a bacterial outbreak in Italian olive trees, and the answer could be "because it's interesting" to both questions.)

buboard 8y ago
It is not uncommon to own olive orchards in southern europe (a family thing). I have olives too.
- pingec 8y ago
  Same here, family tradition. Hello from Slovenia. We are also closely monitoring the situation in Italy. There are other plants that can be infected by X. fastidiosa and should be monitored for signs of disease for example here we are worried about oleander plants that were imported from South Italy.
  - monodeldiablo 8y ago
    Ditto (from Croatia). I never understood the obsession with oleander around these parts. It's (in my humble opinion) not any prettier than "native" ornamentals, and it's toxic to boot. Add to that list that it's apparently an eager vector for X. fastidiosa...
- anon2775 8y ago
  Olive trees are planted decoratively and for crops here, but they're messy trees to have in city neighborhoods.
  - chicob 8y ago
    The wild variety (Olea oleaster) is not as messy.
8y ago

swsieber 8y ago

Zebra mussels are a big problem where I grew up. The bay of Green Bay is very unfriendly to the barefoot swimmer because of them (they leave sharp little shells behind). I can't really think of a way to get rid of them short of making some sort of robotic fleet to go and kill them all. Even worse, the DNR doesn't really want to get involved for fear of upsetting the ecosystem. Someone went as far as to make a machine that makes faux sand from zebra mussel shells (which pile up everywhere along the shore), but he got shutdown because of the unknown environmental impact.

hinkley 8y ago

I’m unfamiliar with the particulars here. Do you have to plant olives and almonds in different fields or do they mostly like the same sun soil and water conditions? There has been a push by some people to plant multiple perennials in the same fields to improve soil quality but also to reduce the ease of spread of pathogens (because the next potential host is far away by insect and spore standards). Would it make sense in this case, especially if you’re cleaning tools as a prophylaxis as well?

chicob 8y ago
They're in different fields. Almond trees are more susceptible to soil moisture and need better drainage. Pest control is different, and having them all together means farmers would have to spray both crops for a problem only one of them has, and a given pesticide may be allowed for almond trees but not for olive trees (e.g. the insecticide phosmet is not allowed in olive trees destined for olive oil; lambda-cyhalothrin applications are limited to two per campaign in olive orchards; many recommend against using glyphosate for weed control in the first years of an almond orchard.) There are some annuals that might be interesting, such as clover, that help with erosion and nitrogen fixation. Native plants serve as buffers for auxiliary species and some (Brassicaceae) act as a prophylactic against fungal infections (Verticillium). Innoculation with mycorrhizae also helps. Perennials might be interesting in riparian zones, to help with drainage and unusual surges of flow.

sizzle 8y ago

Are there any sensors you can use to monitor health of trees programmatically?

sizzle 8y ago

Are there any sensors you can use to monitor health of trees programmatically? "These plant defenses do not seem to hinder the movement of X. fastidiosa. Occlusion of vascular tissue, while a normal plant response to infection, makes symptoms significantly worse: as the bacteria itself also reduces vascular function, a 90% reduction of vascular hydraulic function was seen in susceptible Vitis vinifera." Some type of low energy Bluetooth moisture sensors or a sensor you can stick in the tree itself to monitor reduction in "vascular hydraulic function? of it's xylem tissue?

anon2775 8y ago
That wouldn't scale because of the range and topology of BLE. Solar-powered micropower 900 MHz modules with built-in microcontrollers would be a basis for a viable solution. 900 MHz carries much further for a given power and isn't as susceptible to attenuation due to foilage. Source: did industrial 900 MHz and 2.4 GHz module testing, once upon a time.
- sizzle 8y ago
  Very cool, thanks for the info!

anon2775 8y ago

I'm curious: Are there growing concerns and stress about rain patterns (climate/weather), desertification and irrigation water rights?

chicob 8y ago
Yes. Climate change has brought difficulties in weather forecasting and dam management. Major rivers in Portugal have their sources in Spain, which gives this country a relative position of power in water storage in times of need. In the past, Portugal did make the case that Spain did not respect the law regarding water usage. Weather extremes are also important because of damage and insurance coverage. Irrigation based in artificial reservoirs creates the risk of salination, which is already being monitored. I get regular reports on the quality of the water I use.

thrusong 8y ago

Lake Winnipeg, near Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada, is the 11th largest fresh water lake in the world and became infected with zebra mussels in 2015. Already, things are looking bleak.

techopoly 8y ago

I know next to nothing in this area, but what is the possibility of grafting non-susceptible varietals onto the olive trees? I know that worked for France back when they grafted Texan vines onto their own during the grape phylloxera epidemic - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_French_Wine_Blight

chicob 8y ago
There are no known cultivars of olive that are resistant to X. fastidiosa. Phylloxera attacks the root, and so grafting with resistant stocks protects the scion. In the case of X. fastidiosa, the bacteria can spread on the whole adult structures of the plant when infected vectors feed on the xylem, so grafting is not a solution. In Portugal, Phylloxera became a synonym for madness, since the losses were colossal. I fear that Xylella fastidiosa might become the next "madness"...