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This kind of attitude towards less popular programming languages is very damaging to the field of software engineering. Domain-specific languages are our best t

by mepian 8y ago

This kind of attitude towards less popular programming languages is very damaging to the field of software engineering. Domain-specific languages are our best tool to combat the excessive complexity of software. The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown.

ionforce 8y ago
> The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown. This is a value judgement, ripe for disagreement. Why do you think learning a new programming language is not difficult, as others perceive?
- macintux 8y ago
  I think once you know 2 (or 3 if the 2 are as similar as, say, Java and C#), picking up new ones is comparatively easy. New paradigms can be challenging (looking at you, Prolog and Haskell) but quite doable. However, if you resent being forced to learn a new language, or if you are more of a copy/paste developer than someone who really understands what you're doing[0], yeah, a new language can be a very challenging barrier. [0] I want to be clear: most people start out with very little clue what they're doing in programming. That isn't meant as a disparaging description. I wrote (and copy/pasted) a hell of a lot of code before I started understanding the underlying mechanics of it all, and I'm still baffled by a lot of the development world (again, hi Prolog and Haskell).
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
Upper_Onion 8y ago
Keeps it competitive. We don't want hundreds of millions of people being able to program. You want to put food on the table or not?
ryandrake 8y ago
OP argued that the choice to go with a niche language limits contributions, which is almost certainly true, even if it does combat complexity. You can both be right.
zapzupnz 8y ago
When people say they resent having to learn another language, I wonder if it's really the language they don't want to learn or another set of libraries and frameworks. I mean, that's fair enough, the wheel only wants reinventing so many times. Windows has Windows Forms, WPF, and UWP; macOS has Cocoa; and Linux has … well, a lot of things, each with their own quirks, and not all of them with bindings into every language a developer might want to use.
- sjellis 8y ago
  Steve McConnell observed something like this in "Code Complete": an experienced programmer can get some level of proficiency in a new language in a few weeks, but mastering the tools, libraries and idioms of a language can take a couple of years. Hence, it's a pretty big investment for a whole professional team to switch platforms, and you should try to avoid it.
vortico 8y ago
>The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown. I'm not sure that's the primary reason for people to disagree. A larger reason is that a smaller language has a smaller ecosystem, and solutions in a common language need to be completely rewritten to the new language.

by mepian 8y ago

ionforce 8y ago

> The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown. This is a value judgement, ripe for disagreement. Why do you think learning a new programming language is not difficult, as others perceive?

macintux 8y ago
I think once you know 2 (or 3 if the 2 are as similar as, say, Java and C#), picking up new ones is comparatively easy. New paradigms can be challenging (looking at you, Prolog and Haskell) but quite doable. However, if you resent being forced to learn a new language, or if you are more of a copy/paste developer than someone who really understands what you're doing[0], yeah, a new language can be a very challenging barrier. [0] I want to be clear: most people start out with very little clue what they're doing in programming. That isn't meant as a disparaging description. I wrote (and copy/pasted) a hell of a lot of code before I started understanding the underlying mechanics of it all, and I'm still baffled by a lot of the development world (again, hi Prolog and Haskell).
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

Upper_Onion 8y ago

Keeps it competitive. We don't want hundreds of millions of people being able to program. You want to put food on the table or not?

ryandrake 8y ago

OP argued that the choice to go with a niche language limits contributions, which is almost certainly true, even if it does combat complexity. You can both be right.

zapzupnz 8y ago

When people say they resent having to learn another language, I wonder if it's really the language they don't want to learn or another set of libraries and frameworks. I mean, that's fair enough, the wheel only wants reinventing so many times. Windows has Windows Forms, WPF, and UWP; macOS has Cocoa; and Linux has … well, a lot of things, each with their own quirks, and not all of them with bindings into every language a developer might want to use.

sjellis 8y ago
Steve McConnell observed something like this in "Code Complete": an experienced programmer can get some level of proficiency in a new language in a few weeks, but mastering the tools, libraries and idioms of a language can take a couple of years. Hence, it's a pretty big investment for a whole professional team to switch platforms, and you should try to avoid it.

vortico 8y ago

>The difficulty of learning a new programming language is overblown. I'm not sure that's the primary reason for people to disagree. A larger reason is that a smaller language has a smaller ecosystem, and solutions in a common language need to be completely rewritten to the new language.