6 ms·

I enjoy this sort of humour as much as the next nerd, but just so y'all know, someone close to me who has been through psychosis linked to that particular delus

I enjoy this sort of humour as much as the next nerd, but just so y'all know, someone close to me who has been through psychosis linked to that particular delusion could have any one of a number of responses to that sentence - from getting a little freaked out through to anxiety attack or in the worst case full-on relapse into psychosis. I wouldn't remove it from the list, as this sort of thing adds a bit of character, fun and a sense of shared values to programming; what's life for if you can't have a laugh? But if you're ever making jokes of that ilk and someone in the room goes a bit ... quiet ... do gently check up on them.

kakarot 8y ago
Geez, you must be fun at parties.
- thecatspaw 8y ago
  Well its a lot more fun than having to call an ambulance for a sudden mental break
- bepvte 8y ago
  didnt know not caring about the mentally ill was a requirement for being fun at parties
- herbstein 8y ago
  Yeah, what a weirdo. Caring about other people and shit. Despicable!
stef25 8y ago
Your friend experienced psychosis from being convinced they'd been in a coma? Genuinely curious.
- random_kris 8y ago
  Probably he didn't expirience psychosis from reading that string but I got chills on my body reading that string... Could imagine someone prone to believing stuff like this to get a little bit anxious
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- sideshowb 8y ago
  Long story. Her most immediate trigger was actually a traumatic experience of childbirth. Postpartum/puerperal psychosis affects mothers in approx 1 in 1000 births, or around 1 in 300 where an emergency C section was performed which was the case here; C section is of course pretty routine but in this case was complicated by an ileus. But there were many latent contributing factors to the psychosis as well: adverse reaction to an antibiotic (metronidazole - hallucinations can be a side effect), traumatic childhood, to name just a few. The most acute episode of psychosis happened in hospital and involved some pretty random behaviour accompanied by total loss of response to input. This did not last more than 10 minutes or so, but on return from that state she continued to behave in a way that pretty much resembled someone on a bad LSD trip. This went on for about a week, during which she hardly slept and was never sure whether awake or not, and reported many types of delusional thinking, e.g. that reality was not as it seemed (think inception/matrix/comment in the OP here). Also paranoia that family, friends or strangers were staring or wanted to harm her or her child. Also occasional thoughts of self harm as a means of escape from this awful state of being. This was all pretty much solved by Olanzapine which she still takes 1.5 years later although dosage is now tapering down to almost nothing. Also CBT. At some point the diagnosis was augmented by one of "O-only OCD" resulting in a second prescription for Sertraline. But the condition is very much under control; she is back to work part time, in a role that includes responsibility for children; her co workers know the score and are alert to possible issues but there haven't been any that she couldn't manage herself. Occasionally various thoughts disturb her but she has learned to handle them appropriately. Mental health issues are often exacerbated by stigma, and this is in part because people (for understandable reasons) don't rush to share their experiences with others, which is why I've taken the time to write this post. I would recommend anyone to familiarize themselves with the material published by Mind and others, partly because it's interesting, partly because spotting the signs - and understanding the differences between e.g. psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD, etc (even if the science behind them is far from well understood) - might help someone you know one day. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-.. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-.... Edit: interesting addendum, the matrix/inception fear had been there long before the psychosis. I remember years ago telling her I had lost The Game ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game) ) which she hadn't encountered before. I explained that "the object of the game is not to remember the game" ... she took it to mean we were all in some sort of simulation and got kinda scared even then.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
It isn't delusion, because it could be true, it's just irrelevant. For all you know you're just a brain in a jar hooked up to simulated input, there's no way to prove otherwise. We have no choice but to accept that our senses provide us some approximation of reality.
- bluntfang 8y ago
  That's all fine and dandy, but I think that, as a human cohabitating with other humans, we should do our best to look out for each other and try not to trigger people into psychotic states. When someone near you is experiencing an anxiety attack, it's not very helpful to tell them what they're experiencing shouldn't cause them anxiety.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
- sideshowb 8y ago
  Username checks out, I wouldn't go into mental health work if I were you ;) Is it coincidence that some of the world's most famous philosophers went mad?
  - dkersten 8y ago
    > Is it coincidence that some of the world's most famous philosophers went mad? Yes. Some of <insert anything> went mad, that doesn't prove causation at all.
    - sideshowb 8y ago
      There is of course a plausible mechanism involved though, which is one of the ways we deduce causation from correlation.
- rocqua 8y ago
  If the brain in a vat gets perfectly simulated input, then indeed, there is no way to tell. Same thing if we live in a computer simulation. However, if such a surrounding simulation 'errors' that can be noticed. Moreover, there is the rather pressing issue of 'being turned off'. Its a difficult (semantic?) discussion of whether you can notice your world being deleted, but the thought of unpredictable all-encompassing extinction isn't quite comforting. A better reason not to care, is the idea that there is nothing you can do about it. However, if we are being simulated, there is probably some observer who might react to our actions. Moreover, if we are in a computer simulation we might be able to trigger some 'bug'. So even that line of reasoning isn't clear cut. In the end, life does seem to be easier when you accept reality. Even more so because any way we have to influence the 'outside' is so infeasible as to be useless.
Timpy 8y ago
It gave me a kind of uncomfortable laugh, I had to check my faculties in the same way I might ask myself if I'm dreaming right now. I see what you're saying.
tokai 8y ago
As someone who have also been up and close with psychosis, I think your worry is overkill. Such a sentence will push noone into psychosis by itself. And anyone with budding psychosis can be triggered by anything. I would be more worried about tv news than random jokes in a git repo.
- sideshowb 8y ago
  Well, I have witnessed these ideas causing relapse into anxiety attack for someone with pre existing issues. How unlikely is it in the general populatin? Probably pretty unlikely for sure, but I bet it's not an isolated case. See my longer post below.
  - tokai 8y ago
    A text by Plato was instrumental in starting a psychosis for one of my family members. My point is that anything can act as a trigger. Psychos is unreasonable. Even without any stimuly, anxiety can just come on its own and be undirected (as I have witnessed).
    - sideshowb 8y ago
      Sorry to hear about your family member. I hope they're doing better now. The fact that Plato played a part in your case shows that while anything can act as a trigger, deep philosophical ideas do seem to be a common theme (2 out of 2 on this thread).
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - tokai 8y ago
        While Plato was indeed the trigger, there was nearly no connection between the psychotic ideations and the context of the text. Watching a cloud formation could have done the same.
        8y ago
dkersten 8y ago
There are so many things in the world that can set someone off in some way, I don't think it makes sense to worry too much. Your advice about gently checking up on people who go weirdly quiet makes sense in any situation, not just with something like this.
- sideshowb 8y ago
  True that.

kakarot 8y ago

Geez, you must be fun at parties.

thecatspaw 8y ago
Well its a lot more fun than having to call an ambulance for a sudden mental break
bepvte 8y ago
didnt know not caring about the mentally ill was a requirement for being fun at parties
herbstein 8y ago
Yeah, what a weirdo. Caring about other people and shit. Despicable!

stef25 8y ago

Your friend experienced psychosis from being convinced they'd been in a coma? Genuinely curious.

random_kris 8y ago
Probably he didn't expirience psychosis from reading that string but I got chills on my body reading that string... Could imagine someone prone to believing stuff like this to get a little bit anxious
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
sideshowb 8y ago
Long story. Her most immediate trigger was actually a traumatic experience of childbirth. Postpartum/puerperal psychosis affects mothers in approx 1 in 1000 births, or around 1 in 300 where an emergency C section was performed which was the case here; C section is of course pretty routine but in this case was complicated by an ileus. But there were many latent contributing factors to the psychosis as well: adverse reaction to an antibiotic (metronidazole - hallucinations can be a side effect), traumatic childhood, to name just a few. The most acute episode of psychosis happened in hospital and involved some pretty random behaviour accompanied by total loss of response to input. This did not last more than 10 minutes or so, but on return from that state she continued to behave in a way that pretty much resembled someone on a bad LSD trip. This went on for about a week, during which she hardly slept and was never sure whether awake or not, and reported many types of delusional thinking, e.g. that reality was not as it seemed (think inception/matrix/comment in the OP here). Also paranoia that family, friends or strangers were staring or wanted to harm her or her child. Also occasional thoughts of self harm as a means of escape from this awful state of being. This was all pretty much solved by Olanzapine which she still takes 1.5 years later although dosage is now tapering down to almost nothing. Also CBT. At some point the diagnosis was augmented by one of "O-only OCD" resulting in a second prescription for Sertraline. But the condition is very much under control; she is back to work part time, in a role that includes responsibility for children; her co workers know the score and are alert to possible issues but there haven't been any that she couldn't manage herself. Occasionally various thoughts disturb her but she has learned to handle them appropriately. Mental health issues are often exacerbated by stigma, and this is in part because people (for understandable reasons) don't rush to share their experiences with others, which is why I've taken the time to write this post. I would recommend anyone to familiarize themselves with the material published by Mind and others, partly because it's interesting, partly because spotting the signs - and understanding the differences between e.g. psychosis, schizophrenia, bipolar, OCD, etc (even if the science behind them is far from well understood) - might help someone you know one day. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-.. https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/types-of-mental-.... Edit: interesting addendum, the matrix/inception fear had been there long before the psychosis. I remember years ago telling her I had lost The Game ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Game_(mind_game) ) which she hadn't encountered before. I explained that "the object of the game is not to remember the game" ... she took it to mean we were all in some sort of simulation and got kinda scared even then.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago

It isn't delusion, because it could be true, it's just irrelevant. For all you know you're just a brain in a jar hooked up to simulated input, there's no way to prove otherwise. We have no choice but to accept that our senses provide us some approximation of reality.

bluntfang 8y ago
That's all fine and dandy, but I think that, as a human cohabitating with other humans, we should do our best to look out for each other and try not to trigger people into psychotic states. When someone near you is experiencing an anxiety attack, it's not very helpful to tell them what they're experiencing shouldn't cause them anxiety.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
sideshowb 8y ago
Username checks out, I wouldn't go into mental health work if I were you ;) Is it coincidence that some of the world's most famous philosophers went mad?
- dkersten 8y ago
  > Is it coincidence that some of the world's most famous philosophers went mad? Yes. Some of <insert anything> went mad, that doesn't prove causation at all.
  - sideshowb 8y ago
    There is of course a plausible mechanism involved though, which is one of the ways we deduce causation from correlation.
rocqua 8y ago
If the brain in a vat gets perfectly simulated input, then indeed, there is no way to tell. Same thing if we live in a computer simulation. However, if such a surrounding simulation 'errors' that can be noticed. Moreover, there is the rather pressing issue of 'being turned off'. Its a difficult (semantic?) discussion of whether you can notice your world being deleted, but the thought of unpredictable all-encompassing extinction isn't quite comforting. A better reason not to care, is the idea that there is nothing you can do about it. However, if we are being simulated, there is probably some observer who might react to our actions. Moreover, if we are in a computer simulation we might be able to trigger some 'bug'. So even that line of reasoning isn't clear cut. In the end, life does seem to be easier when you accept reality. Even more so because any way we have to influence the 'outside' is so infeasible as to be useless.

Timpy 8y ago

It gave me a kind of uncomfortable laugh, I had to check my faculties in the same way I might ask myself if I'm dreaming right now. I see what you're saying.

tokai 8y ago

As someone who have also been up and close with psychosis, I think your worry is overkill. Such a sentence will push noone into psychosis by itself. And anyone with budding psychosis can be triggered by anything. I would be more worried about tv news than random jokes in a git repo.

sideshowb 8y ago
Well, I have witnessed these ideas causing relapse into anxiety attack for someone with pre existing issues. How unlikely is it in the general populatin? Probably pretty unlikely for sure, but I bet it's not an isolated case. See my longer post below.
- tokai 8y ago
  A text by Plato was instrumental in starting a psychosis for one of my family members. My point is that anything can act as a trigger. Psychos is unreasonable. Even without any stimuly, anxiety can just come on its own and be undirected (as I have witnessed).
  - sideshowb 8y ago
    Sorry to hear about your family member. I hope they're doing better now. The fact that Plato played a part in your case shows that while anything can act as a trigger, deep philosophical ideas do seem to be a common theme (2 out of 2 on this thread).
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - tokai 8y ago
      While Plato was indeed the trigger, there was nearly no connection between the psychotic ideations and the context of the text. Watching a cloud formation could have done the same.
      - 8y ago

dkersten 8y ago

There are so many things in the world that can set someone off in some way, I don't think it makes sense to worry too much. Your advice about gently checking up on people who go weirdly quiet makes sense in any situation, not just with something like this.

sideshowb 8y ago
True that.