8 ms·

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. And by lifestyle choices I me

And yet crime still does occur, and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper.

rorykoehler 8y ago
Being Malay? Explain please
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  Malays can be denied permanent residency permits even if they are married to a Singaporean citizen. My ex is Singaporean and I (white American) was denied work permit, so I researched it intently. We were considering marriage until we saw the thousands of Malays who were unsuccessful despite marriage. Really hidden and heartbreaking. And that's just one example of Han Chinese racism
  - rorykoehler 8y ago
    Sorry but that isn't remotely the experience I have witnessed. Singapore is about hard cash. Nothing else comes into consideration.
    - anoncoward111 8y ago
      I mean, why should hard cash have anything to do with the right to live and work in Singapore? The US isn't the most awesome country in the world but marrying a foreigner at least conveys them basic rights like residency and work permit. I mean, residency! What is a marriage without residency?
      - rorykoehler 8y ago
        That's the way they run Singapore. Marrying a local gives you extra weight but money comes first. It's their fizz buzz. I'm not sure why you mention what the US does? Its irrelevant. Singapore is a full blown corporatist state. The rules and way they do things reflect that.
        anoncoward111 8y ago
        I agree that that is definitely how they run Singapore, corporatism combined with "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity. When I think of what the USA does in terms of preventing migration, I say to myself, "wow, it probably can't be much worse than this". But then I think of Singapore, and realize I'm wrong-- wow, it can be worse than this! At least in the USA and indeed many countries all over the world, marriage = right to reside. But not in Singapore. If you are Malay, then the government sees you as a threat to the "delicate harmonious balance of races" in Singapore, and they will do a lot to prevent you from permanently residing and working.
        rorykoehler 8y ago
        You're talking absolute rubbish. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but that is no excuse to fabricate bs. Get yourself together.
  - zhte415 8y ago
    Aren't most Singaporean Chinese Hokkien and Hakka, not Han?
    - anoncoward111 8y ago
      Sorry, you are totally right! I was actually meaning to imply that they are heavily influenced by the People's Republic of China, or at least, "Pan-Chinese" identity or "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity. EDIT: upon consulting Wikipedia, it would appear that Hakka is a subset of Han, and that Singaporeans are considered Han despite ancestral migrations. It's a lot like ethnic Irish living in Ireland vs ethnic Irish living in America
philliphaydon 8y ago
There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore. I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country. But hey, each to their own right?
- icebraining 8y ago
  banned, as is every other drug Alcohol and tobacco are banned in Singapore?!
  - paganel 8y ago
    Hope they haven’t banned coffee, also.
- matthewmacleod 8y ago
  On the other hand, same-sex sexual activity is literally illegal in Singapore. That’s not something that I think I am willing to adopt a “difference of opinion” view on - it’s objectively offensive to my moral system, and supporting that idea is not acceptable to me. There is too much “whataboutism” going on here. Criticism of Singapore’s pseudo-police-state doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t have a crippling racism problem, or that the UK’s surveillance state is okay.
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    Surprised this is downvoted. Same sex intercourse is de jure illegal in Singapore. This was the basis of my original comment!
- Kaveren 8y ago
  Alcohol and caffeine both appear to be legal in Singapore. Perhaps we should criminalize it and sentence anyone who uses both of those to prison time. They're drugs, after all! Or we could recognize people's personal freedoms and understand that sacrificing them to achieve a dystopic police state is not worth it. I vehemently disagree with people like you that public order and compliance is such an important end that all means to get there are justified. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore was a link I thought to be at least tangentially related. My position has always been and will always be against anyone that wants almost total control over what other people can do. Authoritarianism is never worth it.
mediumdeviation 8y ago
> I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper. No you won't. However bad you imagine Singapore's police state to be, China's is several order of magnitudes worse. Singapore doesn't block most Western social network, media and file sharing sites. Singapore doesn't ban memes from social networks because they make their leader look bad. Singapore doesn't demand foreign internet companies to host content locally so that the government can crackdown on said content if it doesn't agree with them. Singapore doesn't kidnap dissidents from neighbouring countries, or put entire minority races into concentration camps. And major Chinese cities aren't cheaper either. Surprise - if you want Western standard of living, then you have to pay Western prices.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  I was shacked up with a girl in Harbin for 250 a month for the two of us, which is like an 87% discount compared to Shanghai and NY, I definitely agree. But, I didn't go to Harbin for a squeaky clean experience. I went there for its grime and cheapness, and I felt the surveillance was tolerable for the price. Singapore is like a Chinese Miami. For the price, I'd just go to Miami or Brisbane.
coldtea 8y ago
>And yet crime still does occur Compared to other countries, in the region, but even in the west, very little. >and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. Well, the US used to send you to prison for some marijuana just a few years ago. Some states still do. It's also quite punishable still in countries like Sweden. And all the others used to be problems not that long ago (maybe not being Malay, but "walking while black" still is). So it's not like Singapore is this nightmare outlier place. https://queerintheworld.com/gay-singapore-travel-guide/ https://queerintheworld.com/gay-singapore-travel-guide/
AmericanChopper 8y ago
>yet crime still does occur Of course it does. 0% crime rate is impossible. The point is that Singapore is measurably far safer than most other places in the world. >And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. There’s plenty of reasons to criticise Singapore, but you don’t seem to be familiar with them. If you want to have a lifestyle where you smoke weed, then Singapore is certainly not the right place to live. But being gay or Malay is not a threat to your freedom, life, career or residency. Also, if you’re looking for cheap living, then Singapore’s a terrible place to start. It’s very expensive to live there, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with their laws or how they enforce them.

rorykoehler 8y ago

Being Malay? Explain please

anoncoward111 8y ago
Malays can be denied permanent residency permits even if they are married to a Singaporean citizen. My ex is Singaporean and I (white American) was denied work permit, so I researched it intently. We were considering marriage until we saw the thousands of Malays who were unsuccessful despite marriage. Really hidden and heartbreaking. And that's just one example of Han Chinese racism
- rorykoehler 8y ago
  Sorry but that isn't remotely the experience I have witnessed. Singapore is about hard cash. Nothing else comes into consideration.
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    I mean, why should hard cash have anything to do with the right to live and work in Singapore? The US isn't the most awesome country in the world but marrying a foreigner at least conveys them basic rights like residency and work permit. I mean, residency! What is a marriage without residency?
    - rorykoehler 8y ago
      That's the way they run Singapore. Marrying a local gives you extra weight but money comes first. It's their fizz buzz. I'm not sure why you mention what the US does? Its irrelevant. Singapore is a full blown corporatist state. The rules and way they do things reflect that.
      - anoncoward111 8y ago
        I agree that that is definitely how they run Singapore, corporatism combined with "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity. When I think of what the USA does in terms of preventing migration, I say to myself, "wow, it probably can't be much worse than this". But then I think of Singapore, and realize I'm wrong-- wow, it can be worse than this! At least in the USA and indeed many countries all over the world, marriage = right to reside. But not in Singapore. If you are Malay, then the government sees you as a threat to the "delicate harmonious balance of races" in Singapore, and they will do a lot to prevent you from permanently residing and working.
        rorykoehler 8y ago
        You're talking absolute rubbish. I'm sorry you had a bad experience but that is no excuse to fabricate bs. Get yourself together.
- zhte415 8y ago
  Aren't most Singaporean Chinese Hokkien and Hakka, not Han?
  - anoncoward111 8y ago
    Sorry, you are totally right! I was actually meaning to imply that they are heavily influenced by the People's Republic of China, or at least, "Pan-Chinese" identity or "Anti-Non-Chinese" identity. EDIT: upon consulting Wikipedia, it would appear that Hakka is a subset of Han, and that Singaporeans are considered Han despite ancestral migrations. It's a lot like ethnic Irish living in Ireland vs ethnic Irish living in America

philliphaydon 8y ago

There are many openly gay people in Singapore. I'm glad weed is banned, as is every other drug. Malay people are not stigmatized in Singapore. I would quite literally live in any Asian country before choosing any Western country. But hey, each to their own right?

icebraining 8y ago
banned, as is every other drug Alcohol and tobacco are banned in Singapore?!
- paganel 8y ago
  Hope they haven’t banned coffee, also.
matthewmacleod 8y ago
On the other hand, same-sex sexual activity is literally illegal in Singapore. That’s not something that I think I am willing to adopt a “difference of opinion” view on - it’s objectively offensive to my moral system, and supporting that idea is not acceptable to me. There is too much “whataboutism” going on here. Criticism of Singapore’s pseudo-police-state doesn’t mean that the US doesn’t have a crippling racism problem, or that the UK’s surveillance state is okay.
- anoncoward111 8y ago
  Surprised this is downvoted. Same sex intercourse is de jure illegal in Singapore. This was the basis of my original comment!
Kaveren 8y ago
Alcohol and caffeine both appear to be legal in Singapore. Perhaps we should criminalize it and sentence anyone who uses both of those to prison time. They're drugs, after all! Or we could recognize people's personal freedoms and understand that sacrificing them to achieve a dystopic police state is not worth it. I vehemently disagree with people like you that public order and compliance is such an important end that all means to get there are justified. Edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Singapore was a link I thought to be at least tangentially related. My position has always been and will always be against anyone that wants almost total control over what other people can do. Authoritarianism is never worth it.

mediumdeviation 8y ago

> I would quite literally live in any Chinese city before chosing Singapore. At least China would be cheaper. No you won't. However bad you imagine Singapore's police state to be, China's is several order of magnitudes worse. Singapore doesn't block most Western social network, media and file sharing sites. Singapore doesn't ban memes from social networks because they make their leader look bad. Singapore doesn't demand foreign internet companies to host content locally so that the government can crackdown on said content if it doesn't agree with them. Singapore doesn't kidnap dissidents from neighbouring countries, or put entire minority races into concentration camps. And major Chinese cities aren't cheaper either. Surprise - if you want Western standard of living, then you have to pay Western prices.

anoncoward111 8y ago
I was shacked up with a girl in Harbin for 250 a month for the two of us, which is like an 87% discount compared to Shanghai and NY, I definitely agree. But, I didn't go to Harbin for a squeaky clean experience. I went there for its grime and cheapness, and I felt the surveillance was tolerable for the price. Singapore is like a Chinese Miami. For the price, I'd just go to Miami or Brisbane.

coldtea 8y ago

>And yet crime still does occur Compared to other countries, in the region, but even in the west, very little. >and lifestyle choices are severely punished by jail, death, loss of career and loss of residency. Well, the US used to send you to prison for some marijuana just a few years ago. Some states still do. It's also quite punishable still in countries like Sweden. And all the others used to be problems not that long ago (maybe not being Malay, but "walking while black" still is). So it's not like Singapore is this nightmare outlier place. https://queerintheworld.com/gay-singapore-travel-guide/ https://queerintheworld.com/gay-singapore-travel-guide/

AmericanChopper 8y ago

>yet crime still does occur Of course it does. 0% crime rate is impossible. The point is that Singapore is measurably far safer than most other places in the world. >And by lifestyle choices I mean being gay, smoking weed, or being Malay. There’s plenty of reasons to criticise Singapore, but you don’t seem to be familiar with them. If you want to have a lifestyle where you smoke weed, then Singapore is certainly not the right place to live. But being gay or Malay is not a threat to your freedom, life, career or residency. Also, if you’re looking for cheap living, then Singapore’s a terrible place to start. It’s very expensive to live there, but I don’t see how that has anything to do with their laws or how they enforce them.