4 ms·

Insomnia: To Pursue Sleep So Hard You Become Invigorated by the Chase

67 points by axiomdata316 8y ago

mortenjorck 8y ago
>When I am up at night the world takes on a different hue. It is quieter and closer and there are textures of the dark I have begun paying attention to. I register the thickening, sense-dulling darkness that hangs velvety as a pall over deep night, and the green-black tincture you get when moisture charges the atmosphere with static. It’s all too rare that I get to read text that activates the same neurotransmitters as does listening to a piece of music.
arikr 8y ago
Semi related note: reading the book "The Sleep Book" which details an insomnia solution that basically involves a method to stop needing to pursue/chase/long for sleep, was the thing that cured my insomnia.
- mercer 8y ago
  Could you tell us more about that solution?
  - zmix 8y ago
    Read the book! ;-)
  - ajkjk 8y ago
    I haven't read the book, but have heard of such solutions. Basically: given that anxiety about sleeping prevents sleeping, the solution is necessarily to remove anxiety about sleeping. How? By realizing that peaceful rest, while awake, is also restful, and will suffice. So spend the time in bed peacefully resting and if that happens all night, it'll do. Anecdotally, I have had extreme insomnia, not sleeping for days in a row, at the times in my life when I had the most extreme anxiety, and when the anxiety was removed it went away instantly.
albanberg 8y ago
A simple 15 to 20 minute Viniyoga practice customized for the individual will often correct sleep issues.
- albanberg 8y ago
  Yikes, a downvote for something very positive. Some people just have closed minds. Do you downvote everything that is positive?
  - umanwizard 8y ago
    FWIW I didn't downvote. People aren't not downvoting it because it's positive, but (1) because it is just a random claim that contains no argumentation or useful details, and (2) because it sounds like implausible pseudoscience. People on this site are quite skeptical of anything that sounds like "alternative medicine" (probably for good reason).
    - albanberg 8y ago
      Thanks for a more thoughtful reply. It's personal experience, not random and certainly not pseudoscience. I purposely made it short to see if anyone would be curious. A yoga practice from a qualified teacher is a powerful thing. Try going to this page and doing a search for sleep: https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/krishnamacharya-s-legacy https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/krishnamacharya-s-legac...
mingyeow 8y ago
I had signs of insomnia in the last couple of years. Tried all the usual techniques, and I realized those just do not work for one simple reason - that the moment i do not fall asleep, i become frustrated. And that frustration in turn makes sleeping much harder. So, I tried doing the exact opposite, and my sleep has been tremendously better since. Essentially, i force myself to keep my eyes open. When I catch myself falling asleep, I actually force myself to keep them often again. Before i know it, it is morning. It sounds counter-intuitive, but all my insomnia problems are over, including on a plane. Would love to know if it works for others, or if it is just a silly thing that works for only me.
- r32a_ 8y ago
  This is how some people overcome a creative block, they get frustrated when they don't get good ideas and that stops them from getting good ideas.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    Regarding sleep, I also learned to "take it easy", so to speak. Instead of thinking "I have to get up soon, fall asleep already!!", I simply think "oh well, I might not sleep but at least I can rest my body a bit and think about stuff". I find that inventing things, be their stories, or imaginary programs, helps with drifting over from that into sleep. As for creativity, I don't know if it's good for overall output volume, but I love to have a lot of things in the oven, on the backburner, and in the pantry, and switching occasionally. Sometimes I find that something I was burned out on excites me again, and other times I realize that something I was totally obsessed with for a short while after coming up with it isn't really that good, which is just as important.
    - rgoodwintx 8y ago
      Interestingly enough, I've recently found a couple of similar triggers. (Lifelong sleep issues, getting and staying asleep.) - Thinking about a conversation (real or otherwise) between two OTHER people (I can't be involved), or - counting down backward and visualizing the numbers, but I have to visualize them floating above and behind my head (i.e. not floating in space, or looking directly at them (figuratively speaking) Both scenarios, when they engage, seem like they trigger an almost physical sensation of the brain shifting modes. I'm sure someone has a reasoned explanation for this, but, crazy as it sounds, when I notice the thoughts seem to be "behind my head" I know it's working and I'll drop off to sleep shortly after. (This is imperfect, and I still don't have restful sleep, but anything that aids is still helpful.)
emersonrsantos 8y ago
I think I saw this approach for the first time on Viktor Frankl books which formed the basis for logotherapy: "Don't aim at success. The more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one's surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long-run—in the long-run, I say!—success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think about it”
joveian 8y ago
Note that this is just one type of insomnia; it is not the case that all insomnia necessarily involves the persuit of sleep.

67 points by axiomdata316 8y ago

>When I am up at night the world takes on a different hue. It is quieter and closer and there are textures of the dark I have begun paying attention to. I register the thickening, sense-dulling darkness that hangs velvety as a pall over deep night, and the green-black tincture you get when moisture charges the atmosphere with static. It’s all too rare that I get to read text that activates the same neurotransmitters as does listening to a piece of music.

arikr 8y ago

Semi related note: reading the book "The Sleep Book" which details an insomnia solution that basically involves a method to stop needing to pursue/chase/long for sleep, was the thing that cured my insomnia.

mercer 8y ago
Could you tell us more about that solution?
- zmix 8y ago
  Read the book! ;-)
- ajkjk 8y ago
  I haven't read the book, but have heard of such solutions. Basically: given that anxiety about sleeping prevents sleeping, the solution is necessarily to remove anxiety about sleeping. How? By realizing that peaceful rest, while awake, is also restful, and will suffice. So spend the time in bed peacefully resting and if that happens all night, it'll do. Anecdotally, I have had extreme insomnia, not sleeping for days in a row, at the times in my life when I had the most extreme anxiety, and when the anxiety was removed it went away instantly.

albanberg 8y ago

A simple 15 to 20 minute Viniyoga practice customized for the individual will often correct sleep issues.

albanberg 8y ago
Yikes, a downvote for something very positive. Some people just have closed minds. Do you downvote everything that is positive?
- umanwizard 8y ago
  FWIW I didn't downvote. People aren't not downvoting it because it's positive, but (1) because it is just a random claim that contains no argumentation or useful details, and (2) because it sounds like implausible pseudoscience. People on this site are quite skeptical of anything that sounds like "alternative medicine" (probably for good reason).
  - albanberg 8y ago
    Thanks for a more thoughtful reply. It's personal experience, not random and certainly not pseudoscience. I purposely made it short to see if anyone would be curious. A yoga practice from a qualified teacher is a powerful thing. Try going to this page and doing a search for sleep: https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/krishnamacharya-s-legacy https://www.yogajournal.com/yoga-101/krishnamacharya-s-legac...

mingyeow 8y ago

I had signs of insomnia in the last couple of years. Tried all the usual techniques, and I realized those just do not work for one simple reason - that the moment i do not fall asleep, i become frustrated. And that frustration in turn makes sleeping much harder. So, I tried doing the exact opposite, and my sleep has been tremendously better since. Essentially, i force myself to keep my eyes open. When I catch myself falling asleep, I actually force myself to keep them often again. Before i know it, it is morning. It sounds counter-intuitive, but all my insomnia problems are over, including on a plane. Would love to know if it works for others, or if it is just a silly thing that works for only me.

r32a_ 8y ago
This is how some people overcome a creative block, they get frustrated when they don't get good ideas and that stops them from getting good ideas.
- PavlovsCat 8y ago
  Regarding sleep, I also learned to "take it easy", so to speak. Instead of thinking "I have to get up soon, fall asleep already!!", I simply think "oh well, I might not sleep but at least I can rest my body a bit and think about stuff". I find that inventing things, be their stories, or imaginary programs, helps with drifting over from that into sleep. As for creativity, I don't know if it's good for overall output volume, but I love to have a lot of things in the oven, on the backburner, and in the pantry, and switching occasionally. Sometimes I find that something I was burned out on excites me again, and other times I realize that something I was totally obsessed with for a short while after coming up with it isn't really that good, which is just as important.
  - rgoodwintx 8y ago
    Interestingly enough, I've recently found a couple of similar triggers. (Lifelong sleep issues, getting and staying asleep.) - Thinking about a conversation (real or otherwise) between two OTHER people (I can't be involved), or - counting down backward and visualizing the numbers, but I have to visualize them floating above and behind my head (i.e. not floating in space, or looking directly at them (figuratively speaking) Both scenarios, when they engage, seem like they trigger an almost physical sensation of the brain shifting modes. I'm sure someone has a reasoned explanation for this, but, crazy as it sounds, when I notice the thoughts seem to be "behind my head" I know it's working and I'll drop off to sleep shortly after. (This is imperfect, and I still don't have restful sleep, but anything that aids is still helpful.)

emersonrsantos 8y ago

I think I saw this approach for the first time on Viktor Frankl books which formed the basis for logotherapy: "Don't aim at success. The more you aim at it and make it a target, the more you are going to miss it. For success, like happiness, cannot be pursued; it must ensue, and it only does so as the unintended side effect of one's personal dedication to a cause greater than oneself or as the by-product of one's surrender to a person other than oneself. Happiness must happen, and the same holds for success: you have to let it happen by not caring about it. I want you to listen to what your conscience commands you to do and go on to carry it out to the best of your knowledge. Then you will live to see that in the long-run—in the long-run, I say!—success will follow you precisely because you had forgotten to think about it”

joveian 8y ago

Note that this is just one type of insomnia; it is not the case that all insomnia necessarily involves the persuit of sleep.