8 ms·

Whoa, Men kill themselves many times more than women. I thought this number would be closer.

twalla 8y ago
personal opinion alert: western society seems to preach that the inherent value of men is zero and all value comes from success and accomplishments whereas women are inherently valuable due to their ability to raise children. combine failure to meet the expectations levied upon them by society with a quaker/protestant belief system where all shortcomings boil down to "you didnt work hard enough" plus a culture where showing weakness or seeking help isn't believed to be a masculine trait and it becomes surprising that the discrepancy isn't greater.
- ericmcer 8y ago
  Yeah this is my exact line of thinking. We are all trying to find meaning and purpose in life and the ability to give birth is inherently valuable. Men feel the need to create value through work/skill so if you fail totally in that area....
- hnmonkey 8y ago
  Where is it preached in western society that the inherent value of men is zero? Men can raise children too and last I heard it usually takes a man to help create that child also.
  - ericmcer 8y ago
    Creating 500 new humans takes 500 women and 1-2 men, most men are totally superfluous for procreation, thus us needing to define our value in other ways. Granted that isn't great for genetic diversity :(
goldfeld 8y ago
It's simple, generally it's more common in men that they don't ask for help, don't reconcile with their own true feelings, don't allow for their own full self expression, don't hug, don't cry, don't share emotions with naked confidentiality, and macho culture preys on any signs of weakness, to their own detriment. This carries on to the kinds of hobbies, interests and all that puts men further away from a simple emotional comfort than women. It took me two decades before it didn't feel awkward hugging my brother in earnest, and I consider myself a very sensitive person, so take that for what you will. Maybe it just takes longer for boys to become emotionally mature men. It varies culturally a lot for men and women by city and country, of course.
- deleted 8y ago
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- thwy12321 8y ago
  This isn't why. This is what feminism tells men, that their problems stem from them not being able to handle and process their emotions correctly. That's propaganda. The real reason is more along of the lines of their being less of a safety net for men, less people willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and no attraction from women for men in the bottom 10%.
  - MFLoon 8y ago
    Any data to support those assertions? FWIW I think the reasons you point to are just as plausible contributing factors as the ones GP mentions, but there's no reason it can't be both. And dismissing the effects of machismo/toxic masculinity as simply "feminist propaganda" is just not realistic.
    - nyolfen 8y ago
      https://web.archive.org/web/20180304005047/https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e https://web.archive.org/web/20180304005047/https://theblog.o...
  - otikik 8y ago
    > no attraction from women for men in the bottom 10%. That's what misogyny tells men.
    - shard972 8y ago
      Is this what listening to men looks like? If so I can see why many men don't talk about their issues....
      - zbentley 8y ago
        > Is this what listening to men looks like? Interpreting this as charitably as possible (though I suspect it might be a lost cause): yes, that is exactly what it is. GP didn't suggest that GGP was wrong, stupid, harmful, evil, or any of the above. They understood what GGP wrote, and suggested that it might be based in an opinion formed due to a skewed cultural influence, with the implication that re-examination of said opinion might be in order. That's understanding a claim, thinking about it, and issuing compassionate criticism. Whether you think it's correct or not is up to you, but it certainly isn't a failure to listen.
jakebasile 8y ago
Women attempt more, men complete more. It's partially because men tend to choose more lethal methods such as firearms while women choose less lethal methods like pills. There's also probably non-statistical reasons. As in it is so much harder to seek out help as a male. Speaking from experience here. edit: more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide, seems well sourced.
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alexryan 8y ago
Why is it such a mystery that men kill themselves at much higher rates than women? Humans have twice as many female ancestors as male. Why? Half of the men in each generation have their genes exterminated by hypergamous sexual selection. When you consider that the correlation between IQ and success is 0.5, this explains why IQs have been rising 3 points every 10 years globally. Given the horror of circumstances facing the half of the men who lose the genetic lottery each generation, its surprising that the suicide rate among men is not far higher than it actually is.

personal opinion alert: western society seems to preach that the inherent value of men is zero and all value comes from success and accomplishments whereas women are inherently valuable due to their ability to raise children. combine failure to meet the expectations levied upon them by society with a quaker/protestant belief system where all shortcomings boil down to "you didnt work hard enough" plus a culture where showing weakness or seeking help isn't believed to be a masculine trait and it becomes surprising that the discrepancy isn't greater.

ericmcer 8y ago
Yeah this is my exact line of thinking. We are all trying to find meaning and purpose in life and the ability to give birth is inherently valuable. Men feel the need to create value through work/skill so if you fail totally in that area....
hnmonkey 8y ago
Where is it preached in western society that the inherent value of men is zero? Men can raise children too and last I heard it usually takes a man to help create that child also.
- ericmcer 8y ago
  Creating 500 new humans takes 500 women and 1-2 men, most men are totally superfluous for procreation, thus us needing to define our value in other ways. Granted that isn't great for genetic diversity :(

goldfeld 8y ago

It's simple, generally it's more common in men that they don't ask for help, don't reconcile with their own true feelings, don't allow for their own full self expression, don't hug, don't cry, don't share emotions with naked confidentiality, and macho culture preys on any signs of weakness, to their own detriment. This carries on to the kinds of hobbies, interests and all that puts men further away from a simple emotional comfort than women. It took me two decades before it didn't feel awkward hugging my brother in earnest, and I consider myself a very sensitive person, so take that for what you will. Maybe it just takes longer for boys to become emotionally mature men. It varies culturally a lot for men and women by city and country, of course.

deleted 8y ago
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thwy12321 8y ago
This isn't why. This is what feminism tells men, that their problems stem from them not being able to handle and process their emotions correctly. That's propaganda. The real reason is more along of the lines of their being less of a safety net for men, less people willing to give them the benefit of the doubt, and no attraction from women for men in the bottom 10%.
- MFLoon 8y ago
  Any data to support those assertions? FWIW I think the reasons you point to are just as plausible contributing factors as the ones GP mentions, but there's no reason it can't be both. And dismissing the effects of machismo/toxic masculinity as simply "feminist propaganda" is just not realistic.
  - nyolfen 8y ago
    https://web.archive.org/web/20180304005047/https://theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e https://web.archive.org/web/20180304005047/https://theblog.o...
- otikik 8y ago
  > no attraction from women for men in the bottom 10%. That's what misogyny tells men.
  - shard972 8y ago
    Is this what listening to men looks like? If so I can see why many men don't talk about their issues....
    - zbentley 8y ago
      > Is this what listening to men looks like? Interpreting this as charitably as possible (though I suspect it might be a lost cause): yes, that is exactly what it is. GP didn't suggest that GGP was wrong, stupid, harmful, evil, or any of the above. They understood what GGP wrote, and suggested that it might be based in an opinion formed due to a skewed cultural influence, with the implication that re-examination of said opinion might be in order. That's understanding a claim, thinking about it, and issuing compassionate criticism. Whether you think it's correct or not is up to you, but it certainly isn't a failure to listen.

jakebasile 8y ago

Women attempt more, men complete more. It's partially because men tend to choose more lethal methods such as firearms while women choose less lethal methods like pills. There's also probably non-statistical reasons. As in it is so much harder to seek out help as a male. Speaking from experience here. edit: more info at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_differences_in_suicide, seems well sourced.

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alexryan 8y ago

Why is it such a mystery that men kill themselves at much higher rates than women? Humans have twice as many female ancestors as male. Why? Half of the men in each generation have their genes exterminated by hypergamous sexual selection. When you consider that the correlation between IQ and success is 0.5, this explains why IQs have been rising 3 points every 10 years globally. Given the horror of circumstances facing the half of the men who lose the genetic lottery each generation, its surprising that the suicide rate among men is not far higher than it actually is.