7 ms·

Wow, another study that fails to actually include a low carb diet: >"During the test phase, high, moderate, and low carbohydrate diets varied in carbohydrate (

by nonbel 8y ago

Wow, another study that fails to actually include a low carb diet: >"During the test phase, high, moderate, and low carbohydrate diets varied in carbohydrate (60%, 40%, and 20% of total energy, respectively)" A low carb diet is going to be 100g (~ 400 cal or 20% caloric intake) per day at the absolute maximum. Really it should be half to a quarter of that and you will not feel the need to restrict your eating at all. The way it works for getting to a normal weight is that you feel less hungry if you limit your carb intake to those levels. It's amazing how awful this academic nutrition research is, they just make up their own false definitions about things then draw conclusions about what people care about.

toomuchtodo 8y ago
Keto diet is ideally no more than 20-30g of carbs per day, with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros. This study would explain why keto enables shedding body fat so quickly (which is usually waived away, by myself included, as satiation from fats and protein vs carbs).
- nonbel 8y ago
  >"Keto diet is ideally no more than 20-30g of carbs per day, with the majority of your macros coming from fats. This study would explain why keto enables shedding body fat so quickly" How so? Even their lowest carb diet was much higher than 20-30g per day.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I assume (perhaps incorrectly), that if their lowest carb diet tested is still much higher and they're seeing metabolism increases at that carbohydrate intake level, the effect would be more pronounced at even lower (ie keto) carbohydrate intake levels. Speaking only for myself, when I've utilized the ketogenic diet to lose weight, I can lose upwards of 3lbs a week doing nothing (maintaining a sedentary lifestyle) except restricting carbohydrate intake below 20g/day (eating my fill of eggs, bacon, hamburger, and cheese). This completely ignores any gut microbiome changes (and corresponding nutrient absorption changes that might occur) due to a change in diet.
    - nonbel 8y ago
      Yes, you simply consume less calories on a keto diet because you feel less hungry. For whatever reason consuming carbs over a certain threshold is addictive. Either way, they did not include a keto diet. Instead they used a "relatively low carb" diet of 20% carbs. Since ketosis is an entirely different metabolic state there is no reason to extrapolate from 50%-5% (keto). They have no theory so they need to actually measure this, and every single academic nutrition study I've ever seen on % carbohydrates in the diet fails to do it.
- nikolay 8y ago
  You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it. There's also evidence that muscle is burned first before fat deposits. The only thing that fasting does and people misunderstand the results is increasing HGH, but any growth factors are cancer factors,m too. Increased metabolism also means faster aging.
  - toomuchtodo 8y ago
    I corrected that part of my comment ("with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros"). Regarding "If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it", this is a myth (as long as you are consuming an adequate amount of protein; strength training is helpful if able) [1]. Your body will produce ketone/ketone bodies (an adequate substitute for bodily organs demanding glucose) once your glucose stores are exhausted, and will continue to do so as long as you restrict ingestion of carbohydrates and don't run out of body fat. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ > More recently, Willi et al. examined the efficacy and metabolic impact of a VLCARB in the treatment of morbidly obese adolescents [4]. Six adolescents weighing an average of 147.8 kg consumed the VLCARB (25 g of carbohydrate/day) for 8 weeks. The results indicated that the weight loss with VLCARB is rapid, consistent, and almost exclusively from body fat stores. Changes in lean body mass, as estimated from DEXA and urinary creatinine, were not significant over the term of treatment. Bioelectrical impedance measurements reflected a greater loss of lean body mass, but changes in total body fluid and electrolyte content, as a result of dietary ketosis, may complicate these measurements. > Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.
    - nikolay 8y ago
      You can't eat protein on a fast. Protein also increases blood sugar, and too much of it is detrimental in many ways and growth factors such as IGF-1 being just one.
randomThoughts9 8y ago
Low carb is not (only) keto. And given the fact the ketosis changes completely the rules of the game, I would actually put keto in it's own category. So 100g of carbs seems like a reasonable number if you want to be sure that your subjects do not enter ketosis.
- nonbel 8y ago
  I would put 100g as the upper limit of what you would eat on a low carb diet in a day.
goldfeld 8y ago
"Low-carb" as practiced freely is also dangerous long term, luckily the scientists know better than to go to unreasoned extremes.
- _up 8y ago
  How is it dangerous if you supplement Minerals?
  - matwood 8y ago
    As soon as a diet requires adding supplements, it is no longer a diet that can be used for a lifetime IMO.
  - barry-cotter 8y ago
    Eat fatty meat including organ meats and you can eat nothing but meat for years with no ill effects health wise. http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  Not true. If it was the Eskimos, Inuit and other people who lived in the Arctic circle before modernity encroached there would have been unable to survive. If you’re eating all lean meat you’ll have some kind of deficiency disease inside a month. If you eat fatty meat as well you’ll almost certainly get everything you need and if you eat organ meat as well as muscle and fat we know you can eat that for a year with no ill effects whatsoever. http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html?m=1 http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-...
- nonbel 8y ago
  What danger are you referring to?
someone454 8y ago
Actually, 25g total (including fiber carbs) would be low carb.

by nonbel 8y ago

toomuchtodo 8y ago

Keto diet is ideally no more than 20-30g of carbs per day, with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros. This study would explain why keto enables shedding body fat so quickly (which is usually waived away, by myself included, as satiation from fats and protein vs carbs).

nonbel 8y ago
>"Keto diet is ideally no more than 20-30g of carbs per day, with the majority of your macros coming from fats. This study would explain why keto enables shedding body fat so quickly" How so? Even their lowest carb diet was much higher than 20-30g per day.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I assume (perhaps incorrectly), that if their lowest carb diet tested is still much higher and they're seeing metabolism increases at that carbohydrate intake level, the effect would be more pronounced at even lower (ie keto) carbohydrate intake levels. Speaking only for myself, when I've utilized the ketogenic diet to lose weight, I can lose upwards of 3lbs a week doing nothing (maintaining a sedentary lifestyle) except restricting carbohydrate intake below 20g/day (eating my fill of eggs, bacon, hamburger, and cheese). This completely ignores any gut microbiome changes (and corresponding nutrient absorption changes that might occur) due to a change in diet.
  - nonbel 8y ago
    Yes, you simply consume less calories on a keto diet because you feel less hungry. For whatever reason consuming carbs over a certain threshold is addictive. Either way, they did not include a keto diet. Instead they used a "relatively low carb" diet of 20% carbs. Since ketosis is an entirely different metabolic state there is no reason to extrapolate from 50%-5% (keto). They have no theory so they need to actually measure this, and every single academic nutrition study I've ever seen on % carbohydrates in the diet fails to do it.
nikolay 8y ago
You cannot get "macros" from fat - you get energy, but you need more than energy to survive. If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it. There's also evidence that muscle is burned first before fat deposits. The only thing that fasting does and people misunderstand the results is increasing HGH, but any growth factors are cancer factors,m too. Increased metabolism also means faster aging.
- toomuchtodo 8y ago
  I corrected that part of my comment ("with the majority of your calories coming from fat macros"). Regarding "If you don't get carbs, your body breaks muscle tissue to produce it", this is a myth (as long as you are consuming an adequate amount of protein; strength training is helpful if able) [1]. Your body will produce ketone/ketone bodies (an adequate substitute for bodily organs demanding glucose) once your glucose stores are exhausted, and will continue to do so as long as you restrict ingestion of carbohydrates and don't run out of body fat. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1373635/ > More recently, Willi et al. examined the efficacy and metabolic impact of a VLCARB in the treatment of morbidly obese adolescents [4]. Six adolescents weighing an average of 147.8 kg consumed the VLCARB (25 g of carbohydrate/day) for 8 weeks. The results indicated that the weight loss with VLCARB is rapid, consistent, and almost exclusively from body fat stores. Changes in lean body mass, as estimated from DEXA and urinary creatinine, were not significant over the term of treatment. Bioelectrical impedance measurements reflected a greater loss of lean body mass, but changes in total body fluid and electrolyte content, as a result of dietary ketosis, may complicate these measurements. > Although more long-term studies are needed before a firm conclusion can be drawn, it appears, from most literature studied, that a VLCARB is, if anything, protective against muscle protein catabolism during energy restriction, provided that it contains adequate amounts of protein.
  - nikolay 8y ago
    You can't eat protein on a fast. Protein also increases blood sugar, and too much of it is detrimental in many ways and growth factors such as IGF-1 being just one.

randomThoughts9 8y ago

Low carb is not (only) keto. And given the fact the ketosis changes completely the rules of the game, I would actually put keto in it's own category. So 100g of carbs seems like a reasonable number if you want to be sure that your subjects do not enter ketosis.

nonbel 8y ago
I would put 100g as the upper limit of what you would eat on a low carb diet in a day.

goldfeld 8y ago

"Low-carb" as practiced freely is also dangerous long term, luckily the scientists know better than to go to unreasoned extremes.

_up 8y ago
How is it dangerous if you supplement Minerals?
- matwood 8y ago
  As soon as a diet requires adding supplements, it is no longer a diet that can be used for a lifetime IMO.
- barry-cotter 8y ago
  Eat fatty meat including organ meats and you can eat nothing but meat for years with no ill effects health wise. http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm
barry-cotter 8y ago
Not true. If it was the Eskimos, Inuit and other people who lived in the Arctic circle before modernity encroached there would have been unable to survive. If you’re eating all lean meat you’ll have some kind of deficiency disease inside a month. If you eat fatty meat as well you’ll almost certainly get everything you need and if you eat organ meat as well as muscle and fat we know you can eat that for a year with no ill effects whatsoever. http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://www.mendosa.com/stefansson1.htm http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-who-ate-nothing-but-meat.html?m=1 http://inhumanexperiment.blogspot.com/2009/09/two-brave-men-...
nonbel 8y ago
What danger are you referring to?

someone454 8y ago

Actually, 25g total (including fiber carbs) would be low carb.