5 ms·

Where are you getting this "price hike" narrative for Google from? Google's presence in the cloud market is instrumental in across the board price drops.

thanatropism 8y ago
Google Maps left probably thousands of small, barely viable projects with their shorts down and no belt.
- writepub 8y ago
  Google maps is NOT a part of Google cloud! https://cloud.google.com/products/ https://cloud.google.com/products/
  - arctux 8y ago
    This is not correct: https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/ https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/
    - jkaplowitz 8y ago
      Google Maps Platform is a part of Google Cloud, but not a part of Google Cloud Platform, despite now integrating with Google Cloud Platform's web console for purposes of managing billing and API keys. Yes, this is a branding and communication mess, but nevertheless true.
      - arctux 8y ago
        You seem to be correct. > Google Maps Platform is a part of Google Cloud, but not a part of Google Cloud Platform I have never felt that I have been confused by something so justifiably.
        skj 8y ago
        (googler working in gcp here) The basic way to tell if something is part of GCP or another Google product that some marketing whiz managed to have "cloud" tacked onto the name is whether or not you need a GCP project to work with it.
        komali2 8y ago
        Do you not for Maps? All my API keys are lumped under "test_prjoect_1" for me, which I don't even remember creating.
        chrisbroadfoot 8y ago
        (GCP employee) Not true, as far as I know. Many (if not all) Google APIs require a GCP project for access via API key, service account credential, or mobile application.
        jkaplowitz 8y ago
        No argument here on that point! I'll defend many things about the technical quality of GCP and its appropriateness as a viable choice in many cases, but not Google's branding, external PR, or external perception management. They've always been bad in those areas and that pattern continues. (Relevant disclosure I've said in other comments: I used to work for Google, including GCP, ending in 2015. I've never worked for Google PR/comms/marketing and I don't work or speak for Google now.)
- briffle 8y ago
  Funny how everyone here complains about Google maps changing their licensing, but nobody brings up MS changing changing from per socket to per core licensing a few years ago. That burned several medium businesses I know.
  - toast0 8y ago
    Per socket vs per core happened with a version bump right? If Google maps pricing changes only happened when you used a new api, and you could keep using your existing code with your existing prices, that would be a lot less grudge worthy.
  - manigandham 8y ago
    Are you talking about SQL Server? You can keep using old versions, and the performance improvements of modern hardware and new versions end up providing more value overall. With Maps, there's suddenly a new price and you have no options.
    - Spooky23 8y ago
      Also Windows and System Center. It’s very painful for Microsoft shops as many applications really need standalone SQL. With our scaled up SCCM environment, SQL alone increased licensing cost by a very significant factor, as you need to license SQL Enterprise when you exceed the core limits of the gratis SQL Standard license.
  - thanatropism 8y ago
    Probably not a lot of people used Microsoft services then.
puzzle 8y ago
Probably from the AppEngine change of almost a decade ago or the double Maps bumps (the big shrinking of the free tier years ago, then another one in 2018). Usually those are adjustments to make prices match reality.
- jkaplowitz 8y ago
  Google also puts a lot of weight in certain nuances that get overlooked and then quickly forgotten in the Internet's memory. Your first example: App Engine price hike happened when App Engine departed preview, not after the service had already been intended for mission-critical production use. Your second example: what they're now calling Google Maps Platform has never been part of Google Cloud Platform, is only relatively recently in a nearby part of the org chart & branding structure (aka Google Cloud which also includes Chrome and Android and G Suite), and has never been subjected to the Google Cloud Platform Deprecation Policy. Yes, this is a communication failure on Google's part and I'm not blaming the Internet for the common misimpression. But Google's substantive actions in these price changes can be distinguished from how they approach generally available and policy-covered services within GCP, and customers can plan on that basis. (Similarly with G Suite - one should plan differently for core G suite services covered by the G Suite terms and SLA, as compared to other additional Google services that one might use with G Suite.)
  - Dylan16807 8y ago
    Yeah, that stuff isn't part of Google Cloud Platform. But trust in the stability of products can't be siloed that easily.
    - jkaplowitz 8y ago
      With different communication that's harder to misunderstand, it would have been possible for Google to get a much better trust and expectations outcome from exactly the same substantive price changes (at least for GAE and GCP if not Maps). I think we're mostly or entirely agreeing?
arctux 8y ago
The Google Maps API is a good example. They increased prices by an order of magnitude while simultaneously decreasing the free tier with one month's notice. [0] [0] http://geoawesomeness.com/developers-up-in-arms-over-google-maps-api-insane-price-hike/ http://geoawesomeness.com/developers-up-in-arms-over-google-...

thanatropism 8y ago

Google Maps left probably thousands of small, barely viable projects with their shorts down and no belt.

writepub 8y ago
Google maps is NOT a part of Google cloud! https://cloud.google.com/products/ https://cloud.google.com/products/
- arctux 8y ago
  This is not correct: https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/ https://cloud.google.com/maps-platform/
  - jkaplowitz 8y ago
    Google Maps Platform is a part of Google Cloud, but not a part of Google Cloud Platform, despite now integrating with Google Cloud Platform's web console for purposes of managing billing and API keys. Yes, this is a branding and communication mess, but nevertheless true.
    - arctux 8y ago
      You seem to be correct. > Google Maps Platform is a part of Google Cloud, but not a part of Google Cloud Platform I have never felt that I have been confused by something so justifiably.
      - skj 8y ago
        (googler working in gcp here) The basic way to tell if something is part of GCP or another Google product that some marketing whiz managed to have "cloud" tacked onto the name is whether or not you need a GCP project to work with it.
        komali2 8y ago
        Do you not for Maps? All my API keys are lumped under "test_prjoect_1" for me, which I don't even remember creating.
        chrisbroadfoot 8y ago
        (GCP employee) Not true, as far as I know. Many (if not all) Google APIs require a GCP project for access via API key, service account credential, or mobile application.
      - jkaplowitz 8y ago
        No argument here on that point! I'll defend many things about the technical quality of GCP and its appropriateness as a viable choice in many cases, but not Google's branding, external PR, or external perception management. They've always been bad in those areas and that pattern continues. (Relevant disclosure I've said in other comments: I used to work for Google, including GCP, ending in 2015. I've never worked for Google PR/comms/marketing and I don't work or speak for Google now.)
briffle 8y ago
Funny how everyone here complains about Google maps changing their licensing, but nobody brings up MS changing changing from per socket to per core licensing a few years ago. That burned several medium businesses I know.
- toast0 8y ago
  Per socket vs per core happened with a version bump right? If Google maps pricing changes only happened when you used a new api, and you could keep using your existing code with your existing prices, that would be a lot less grudge worthy.
- manigandham 8y ago
  Are you talking about SQL Server? You can keep using old versions, and the performance improvements of modern hardware and new versions end up providing more value overall. With Maps, there's suddenly a new price and you have no options.
  - Spooky23 8y ago
    Also Windows and System Center. It’s very painful for Microsoft shops as many applications really need standalone SQL. With our scaled up SCCM environment, SQL alone increased licensing cost by a very significant factor, as you need to license SQL Enterprise when you exceed the core limits of the gratis SQL Standard license.
- thanatropism 8y ago
  Probably not a lot of people used Microsoft services then.

puzzle 8y ago

Probably from the AppEngine change of almost a decade ago or the double Maps bumps (the big shrinking of the free tier years ago, then another one in 2018). Usually those are adjustments to make prices match reality.

jkaplowitz 8y ago
Google also puts a lot of weight in certain nuances that get overlooked and then quickly forgotten in the Internet's memory. Your first example: App Engine price hike happened when App Engine departed preview, not after the service had already been intended for mission-critical production use. Your second example: what they're now calling Google Maps Platform has never been part of Google Cloud Platform, is only relatively recently in a nearby part of the org chart & branding structure (aka Google Cloud which also includes Chrome and Android and G Suite), and has never been subjected to the Google Cloud Platform Deprecation Policy. Yes, this is a communication failure on Google's part and I'm not blaming the Internet for the common misimpression. But Google's substantive actions in these price changes can be distinguished from how they approach generally available and policy-covered services within GCP, and customers can plan on that basis. (Similarly with G Suite - one should plan differently for core G suite services covered by the G Suite terms and SLA, as compared to other additional Google services that one might use with G Suite.)
- Dylan16807 8y ago
  Yeah, that stuff isn't part of Google Cloud Platform. But trust in the stability of products can't be siloed that easily.
  - jkaplowitz 8y ago
    With different communication that's harder to misunderstand, it would have been possible for Google to get a much better trust and expectations outcome from exactly the same substantive price changes (at least for GAE and GCP if not Maps). I think we're mostly or entirely agreeing?

arctux 8y ago

The Google Maps API is a good example. They increased prices by an order of magnitude while simultaneously decreasing the free tier with one month's notice. [0] [0] http://geoawesomeness.com/developers-up-in-arms-over-google-maps-api-insane-price-hike/ http://geoawesomeness.com/developers-up-in-arms-over-google-...