6 ms·

So it does everything that Linux does, but you can also send all your personal data automatically to google. Wow, what a value proposition!

by zwaps 8y ago

pkulak 8y ago
You can send your data to Google with anything.
idm 8y ago
I made a separate account for the Chromebook. I don't associate any personal info with this account. Of course, most people will reuse their existing accounts, but it's not strictly required to provide personal details in order to use a Chromebook.
- mosselman 8y ago
  It still sounds like something I’d not be interested in: having to be so defensive around the os. Apps are already annoying, but if you can’t trust the OS itself, then why bother with it at all?
  - jchw 8y ago
    That's the reality I feel every time I boot into Windows to be honest. I work at Google so I am definitely biased but candidly those OneDrive ads in Explorer pissed me off pretty badly, as does start menu ads, Cortana notifications, automatically installing Candy Crush, and so many other things. You can disable most of that, but then I hear there's still telemetry getting sent back to MSFT even after you disable every tickbox in site. Of course, the obvious solution is to run a good Linux distro or OpenBSD, but frankly it's hard to live with purely just Linux for me. ChromeOS has the advantage of things like near perfect High DPI support.
    - zwaps 8y ago
      For what's it worth, I have been using Linux as a side-OS since pre 2000, and only in the last two years has it become really good. It's now my main driver on all my machines and frankly I have started to prefer it. This has never happened in the ~20 years I have been using Linux and other OS. Linux went from "meh" to just as good pretty recently, imo. Furthermore, this is just a usability consideration. Don't forget that all other OS become more and more closed, more and more about collecting private data, and more and more about proprietary app stores.
      - jchw 8y ago
        Wayland is still a mess. And I can't share my screen via WebRTC in Wayland, and mixed DPI is still not as functional as Windows and Mac and ChromeOS are. I use Linux regularly, but I don't feel like it's really making much forward progress anymore.
      - dingdingdang 8y ago
        My experience too, we've just started switched 100+ PCs at work over to Linux Mint as a result of this maturation - it's just plain better than Windows now, no ads, no upgrade ruining everything, no telemetry, no ignoring and resetting of user settings. Best of all: consistent software deployment via package management that actually works and does not include malware, adware and other janky sideloaded stuff.
    - mosselman 8y ago
      Exactly. I only use Windows for gaming from time to time and I have to be careful about other things on it. No way to work though so I am happy that Steam is making lots of progress on their wine fork.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- mooman219 8y ago
  Do you have an example of when your were personally attacked with you private data by Google? If you're going to say ads in general, you know targeting can be disabled? I see all this constant distrust towards Google, but they're probably the best example of keeping your data secure. (According to market share) 99% of people are running an OS that collects some amount of telemetry data about them already, but Chrome OS, with a <1% market share is the real offender? People are less vocal about companies that actually lose your data, like Equifax, Facebook, and even Canonical had a data breach. I know it's fun to pick on the biggest players, but mid size and small companies have atrocious security practices that are actually abused.
  - zwaps 8y ago
    It's naive to think the data that is collected about you is harmless if it is secure. Standard economic theory suggests that precise knowledge about your properties and preferences will, in the future, allow firms to extract the maximum profit from you, to your detriment. Google is already heavily investing the health sector, for example. Not only does Google have a lot of broad data associated with your person, for example, any symptoms of disease you ever plugged into search, but we are also talking about an OS, which has absolute supremacy about anything you do on that computer. That is why we should care, and that is why a comparision even to amazon or facebook is not accurate here. In this particular case, the breadth and depth of the possibilities to get data about you are unusual. And keep in mind we are arguing about an OS that is technically not even open-source.
  - throw2016 8y ago
    Privacy is not just some vague 'great to have' value. The opposite of privacy is surveillance, which democracy by its very definition excludes, but happens to be a key feature of totalitarianism. Everyone knows the consequences of surveillance, there is no need to wait for consequences to be concerned. The casual disregard and lack of appreciation of the values that make modern societies possible is concerning. Hand waving away surveillance infrastructure and seeking to normalize invasive surveillance is in the interest of companies like Google who profit from it, but for citizens to be blase suggests a reckless disregard of historical record and the societies they live in.
- pisky 8y ago
  I did this for years until Google demanded a phone number in order to log in. (HN thread about it in my history.)
writepub 8y ago
Just pointing out that windows and Mac collect comparable amounts of personal information, especially if you want to use their app stores. Oh, and Ubuntu siphons data to Amazon. So - if you really want no one snooping around by default, you should be on a more obscure Linux distro, that so devs don't support out of the box. For instance, one can find a Spotify app for Ubuntu/Debain, but you'll have to struggle on ArchLinux, or Suse
- Skunkleton 8y ago
  https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/spotify/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/spotify/
- zwaps 8y ago
  I have literally found anything, 100% of what I needed, available for Manjaro/Arch. Your mileage will vary, but installing spotify takes one command.
  - writepub 8y ago
    My point is that in Linux Ubuntu has the best support from mainstream app devs.
- type0 8y ago
  > Oh, and Ubuntu siphons data to Amazon. Does it really?
  - writepub 8y ago
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-linux-integrating-amazon/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-li...
staticassertion 8y ago
Really? All of your personal info? Like what? What info from within my Linux container is being sent to Google?
- amelius 8y ago
  You'll probably never know exactly. Better be safe than sorry.
  - staticassertion 8y ago
    You could say that about Ubuntu or any other operating system. "Better safe than sorry" abused this way will lead to no more computers - not the worst future, but I'd at least be out of a job.
    - benologist 8y ago
      It would be disingenuous to say that about Ubuntu and all other operating systems when Google is the only one willfully and proactively abusing privacy all over the globe and aspiring to go even further to help China crush dissidents.
      - staticassertion 8y ago
        Unless you can point me to instrumentation on ChromeOS that I should be concerned with, I'm going to not assume that "all of my data" is going to Google.
        benologist 8y ago
        Violating your privacy does not require all of your data. https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-pri...
        zwaps 8y ago
        Thing is, whether its ChromeOS or Windows, you are not allowed to look at what exactly they are sending or not sending, and you literally sign a contract saying that they can collect whatever they want and use it however they want. Google has a history of downright ignoring your privacy setting for the benefit of getting more data. And they are aggressively trying to associate you with more devices. It's also not even that they want usage data specifically, they are in the business of building data rich personalized profiles of you, for whatever use they decide on later. Whether or not you are concerned is up to you. I don't see any advantage of ChromeOS over Linux that would, for me, be worth the risk.
porphyrogene 8y ago
My android phone (which I have stopped using) sends ads as notifications based on my location. Usually it's just asking me to review something nearby but they have suggested that I visit somewhere (McDonald's, for example) then leave a review. If I turn off location services Google Maps pretends that it cannot access information like my saved addresses even though I can see them on the map. It will not allow me to use them to set a route or refer to them in any way, they are only visible as pins on the map. If Chrome OS becomes as ubiquitous as Android I'm sure such "features" will be soon to follow. People who are cynical about taking seriously Google's harvesting and usage of user data are delusional to have so much faith in them. Our last hope is that many developers still care about privacy and security. Chrome OS for web development is an unacceptable proposition.

So it does everything that Linux does, but you can also send all your personal data automatically to google. Wow, what a value proposition!

by zwaps 8y ago

So it does everything that Linux does, but you can also send all your personal data automatically to google. Wow, what a value proposition!

pkulak 8y ago

You can send your data to Google with anything.

idm 8y ago

I made a separate account for the Chromebook. I don't associate any personal info with this account. Of course, most people will reuse their existing accounts, but it's not strictly required to provide personal details in order to use a Chromebook.

mosselman 8y ago
It still sounds like something I’d not be interested in: having to be so defensive around the os. Apps are already annoying, but if you can’t trust the OS itself, then why bother with it at all?
- jchw 8y ago
  That's the reality I feel every time I boot into Windows to be honest. I work at Google so I am definitely biased but candidly those OneDrive ads in Explorer pissed me off pretty badly, as does start menu ads, Cortana notifications, automatically installing Candy Crush, and so many other things. You can disable most of that, but then I hear there's still telemetry getting sent back to MSFT even after you disable every tickbox in site. Of course, the obvious solution is to run a good Linux distro or OpenBSD, but frankly it's hard to live with purely just Linux for me. ChromeOS has the advantage of things like near perfect High DPI support.
  - zwaps 8y ago
    For what's it worth, I have been using Linux as a side-OS since pre 2000, and only in the last two years has it become really good. It's now my main driver on all my machines and frankly I have started to prefer it. This has never happened in the ~20 years I have been using Linux and other OS. Linux went from "meh" to just as good pretty recently, imo. Furthermore, this is just a usability consideration. Don't forget that all other OS become more and more closed, more and more about collecting private data, and more and more about proprietary app stores.
    - jchw 8y ago
      Wayland is still a mess. And I can't share my screen via WebRTC in Wayland, and mixed DPI is still not as functional as Windows and Mac and ChromeOS are. I use Linux regularly, but I don't feel like it's really making much forward progress anymore.
    - dingdingdang 8y ago
      My experience too, we've just started switched 100+ PCs at work over to Linux Mint as a result of this maturation - it's just plain better than Windows now, no ads, no upgrade ruining everything, no telemetry, no ignoring and resetting of user settings. Best of all: consistent software deployment via package management that actually works and does not include malware, adware and other janky sideloaded stuff.
  - mosselman 8y ago
    Exactly. I only use Windows for gaming from time to time and I have to be careful about other things on it. No way to work though so I am happy that Steam is making lots of progress on their wine fork.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
mooman219 8y ago
Do you have an example of when your were personally attacked with you private data by Google? If you're going to say ads in general, you know targeting can be disabled? I see all this constant distrust towards Google, but they're probably the best example of keeping your data secure. (According to market share) 99% of people are running an OS that collects some amount of telemetry data about them already, but Chrome OS, with a <1% market share is the real offender? People are less vocal about companies that actually lose your data, like Equifax, Facebook, and even Canonical had a data breach. I know it's fun to pick on the biggest players, but mid size and small companies have atrocious security practices that are actually abused.
- zwaps 8y ago
  It's naive to think the data that is collected about you is harmless if it is secure. Standard economic theory suggests that precise knowledge about your properties and preferences will, in the future, allow firms to extract the maximum profit from you, to your detriment. Google is already heavily investing the health sector, for example. Not only does Google have a lot of broad data associated with your person, for example, any symptoms of disease you ever plugged into search, but we are also talking about an OS, which has absolute supremacy about anything you do on that computer. That is why we should care, and that is why a comparision even to amazon or facebook is not accurate here. In this particular case, the breadth and depth of the possibilities to get data about you are unusual. And keep in mind we are arguing about an OS that is technically not even open-source.
- throw2016 8y ago
  Privacy is not just some vague 'great to have' value. The opposite of privacy is surveillance, which democracy by its very definition excludes, but happens to be a key feature of totalitarianism. Everyone knows the consequences of surveillance, there is no need to wait for consequences to be concerned. The casual disregard and lack of appreciation of the values that make modern societies possible is concerning. Hand waving away surveillance infrastructure and seeking to normalize invasive surveillance is in the interest of companies like Google who profit from it, but for citizens to be blase suggests a reckless disregard of historical record and the societies they live in.
pisky 8y ago
I did this for years until Google demanded a phone number in order to log in. (HN thread about it in my history.)

writepub 8y ago

Just pointing out that windows and Mac collect comparable amounts of personal information, especially if you want to use their app stores. Oh, and Ubuntu siphons data to Amazon. So - if you really want no one snooping around by default, you should be on a more obscure Linux distro, that so devs don't support out of the box. For instance, one can find a Spotify app for Ubuntu/Debain, but you'll have to struggle on ArchLinux, or Suse

Skunkleton 8y ago
https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/spotify/ https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/spotify/
zwaps 8y ago
I have literally found anything, 100% of what I needed, available for Manjaro/Arch. Your mileage will vary, but installing spotify takes one command.
- writepub 8y ago
  My point is that in Linux Ubuntu has the best support from mainstream app devs.
type0 8y ago
> Oh, and Ubuntu siphons data to Amazon. Does it really?
- writepub 8y ago
  https://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-linux-integrating-amazon/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/shuttleworth-defends-ubuntu-li...

staticassertion 8y ago

Really? All of your personal info? Like what? What info from within my Linux container is being sent to Google?

amelius 8y ago
You'll probably never know exactly. Better be safe than sorry.
- staticassertion 8y ago
  You could say that about Ubuntu or any other operating system. "Better safe than sorry" abused this way will lead to no more computers - not the worst future, but I'd at least be out of a job.
  - benologist 8y ago
    It would be disingenuous to say that about Ubuntu and all other operating systems when Google is the only one willfully and proactively abusing privacy all over the globe and aspiring to go even further to help China crush dissidents.
    - staticassertion 8y ago
      Unless you can point me to instrumentation on ChromeOS that I should be concerned with, I'm going to not assume that "all of my data" is going to Google.
      - benologist 8y ago
        Violating your privacy does not require all of your data. https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-privacy https://www.eff.org/wp/school-issued-devices-and-student-pri...
      - zwaps 8y ago
        Thing is, whether its ChromeOS or Windows, you are not allowed to look at what exactly they are sending or not sending, and you literally sign a contract saying that they can collect whatever they want and use it however they want. Google has a history of downright ignoring your privacy setting for the benefit of getting more data. And they are aggressively trying to associate you with more devices. It's also not even that they want usage data specifically, they are in the business of building data rich personalized profiles of you, for whatever use they decide on later. Whether or not you are concerned is up to you. I don't see any advantage of ChromeOS over Linux that would, for me, be worth the risk.

porphyrogene 8y ago

My android phone (which I have stopped using) sends ads as notifications based on my location. Usually it's just asking me to review something nearby but they have suggested that I visit somewhere (McDonald's, for example) then leave a review. If I turn off location services Google Maps pretends that it cannot access information like my saved addresses even though I can see them on the map. It will not allow me to use them to set a route or refer to them in any way, they are only visible as pins on the map. If Chrome OS becomes as ubiquitous as Android I'm sure such "features" will be soon to follow. People who are cynical about taking seriously Google's harvesting and usage of user data are delusional to have so much faith in them. Our last hope is that many developers still care about privacy and security. Chrome OS for web development is an unacceptable proposition.