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Night Sight: Seeing in the Dark on Pixel Phones
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoGoogle continues to really take their cameras to the next level. It's just a shame the rest of the hardware doesn't follow suit.
- ariwilson 8y agoI think the Pixel 3 (regular) is the best phone of this year.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI don't know about that. For being a phone that touts long term support it doesn't seem terribly future proof with the amount of RAM and storage it has, as well as having a pretty regular battery that is certain to really degrade by the time support ends.
- ariwilson 8y ago"Future proof" != RAM and battery. See any Apple device. "Future proof" is works well (fast, latest updates) 3 years from now.
- soylentcola 8y ago3 years from now is nothing. I still have old Android devices that get used as media players and "smart" displays/remotes because I could install slimmed-down OS builds to keep them running smoothly long after official support stopped. I had to stop using my 3rd gen iPad after official updates made it so slow it was a chore to use as more than an eReader. No option to install an older or 3rd party build. No way to repurpose it for much else at this point. I look at it like an old "smart tv" versus an old PC. The PC can always get a lightweight Linux build or something else to make it useful. The tv gets what's on it, the end.
- mixmastamyk 8y agoOur iPad 2 has also been mostly out of commission since iOS 9. Use it answer text messages now.
- canuckintime 8y agoiPhone XS ($1,000): 4GB of RAM, starts at 64GB of storage, and has a 2,658mAh battery[1] Pixel 3 ($800): 4GB of RAM, starts at 64GB of storage, and has a 2,915 mAh Pixel 3 looks future ready to me. [1] Apple, supposedly the gold standard for long term smart phone support, has already added last years iPhone 8 (2,675mAh) and iPhone X (2,716mAh) to its throttling list: https://www.macworld.com/article/3317689/apple-phone/iphone-8-iphone-x-throttling.html https://www.macworld.com/article/3317689/apple-phone/iphone-...
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoWe're comparing different ecosystems. What's good for Apple, in a tightly controlled ecosystem, may not match Android, where requirements and phone capabilities can be much less restrained, and competition for more RAM and storage is healthy.
- canuckintime 8y agoWe’re not comparing Android in general to iPhones. We’re comparing Pixel phones which Google controls with a similar care to Apple’s ecosystem. There have been reviews of Pixel phones that say they perform more smoothly than other Android phones with more RAM. Google also provides an integrated cloud storage system for Pixels that many customers consider better than Apple’s for iPhones (Google Photos is popular).
- 0x38B 8y agoIn practice, Google Photos is excellent. I don't worry about my photos: they sync to the cloud and I can delete them from the device to save space. Being able to search through my photos by person or even object ('cat') is convenient when looking for that one photo. Also, for someone who often does informal photo sessions for friends or strangers, being able to share links to groups or albums of photos is super convenient. They can download the full album as a .zip, too. Pair this with the Pixel's excellent camera, and I don't even miss my mirrorless M4/3rds. The only thing I find myself consistently missing is a good telephoto. I know Moment makes a case and accompanying lenses, but I use the $40 Google case.
- gammateam 8y agoYes, I could see iOS devices doing this too, since they already are taking multiple exposures with live photos all the time. Just boost the exposure parameter on one or two and you get the same result. The point cloud in the "portrait camera" can also be used to map and determine whats there too and the software could decide to draw and brighten it. What I like about it is that iOS hardware does keep up, complementing your observations about the limitations of Google's solutions.
- eco 8y agoAs detailed in the linked article, it is a lot more complicated than just adding longer exposures to an HDR shot.
- celeritascelery 8y agoBut Huawei has done the same thing with their phones, so it is not some secret tech exclusive to Google. The hardware is present in iOS.
- smlacy 8y agoWhen you say "rest of the hardware" are you referring specifically to Google's Pixel phones? From a hardware perspective, they seem pretty great. Or, are you referring to the phone industry in general, and how they're unable to make cameras that match the quality of the ones in the Google Pixel line?
- Dig1t 8y agoPixel hardware is pretty mediocre in most other respects.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoI'm referring specifically to Pixel phones. They made weird choices with awkward notches, small storage and RAM, as well as a mediocre at best battery.
- PhasmaFelis 8y agoAlso, removing the headphone jack for no reason except that it's fashionable right now.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoThe conceit that it makes it slimmer is ridiculous. Give me a thicker phone to fit in that headphone jack, and while you're at it, fill the rest of the space with battery.
- reaperducer 8y agoAnd a floppy disk. An an IEEE-488 interface.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y agoOk, yeah, you can exaggerate the desire for backwards compatibility, but when you change to NOT use the standard that's not the same thing at all. I believe wired headphones to still be the standard item of choice for listening, as evidenced by the extremely common need for a dongle.
- technofiend 8y agoThe article flatly states "Night Sight works best on Pixel 3" and although it directly attributes this to "our learning-based white balancer is trained for Pixel 3, so it will be less accurate on older phones" the article also mentions other things the Pixel 3 does better than other phones due to better processor; Pixel 2 has a Snapdragon 835 and Pixel 3 sports a Snapdragon 845. Sort of like Intel releases i3, i5, i7 and i9 processors so consumers may choose a price and performance point it may be time for Google to differentiate handsets on more than just screen size. I didn't find the Pixel 2 to Pixel 3 upgrade compelling enough to spend hundreds upgrading a year old phone. Had Google released a high-performance version targetting power users with the Snapdragon 850 with a larger camera element that would really be something to think about. As it is Red will probably capture that market if they offer a decent sensor as a component, essentially stealing Google's phone-as-components concept from their now defunct Project Ara. Google doesn't seem inclined to supply outboard accesories so I'm not suggesting they do the same, instead as I mentioned earlier maybe they release a power user version of the phone with top of the line components integrated instead. It would be understood the tradeoff for higher performance and better features is battery life.
- lambdadmitry 8y agoI wish there was an app combo to stack images in post on the laptop. There are choices to be made (dynamic range for one), and when done in such a way there is almost unlimited computing power. There are a few astrophotography apps, but they don't use accelerometer data and aren't particularly suited for uneven motion blur AFAIK.
- scrumbledober 8y agoI agree that photo stacking is sorely underrepresented in photo editing software.
- mrunseen 8y agoIIRC Astrophotography stacking app is DeepSkyStacker for if anyone interested
- piinbinary 8y agoDo the links to the full resolution images result in a 401 for anyone else?
- aantix 8y agoIs anyone doing the equivalent for the iPhone?
- celeritascelery 8y agoNo reason they couldn’t. It would just involve some fairly advanced algorithms, so it is not trivial. But the hardware is there. Apple could release this in a update if they wanted. Doubt it will happen till next year though.
- hactually 8y agoIt's been the case since the Pixel 1 that if you want the best in class camera - buy Pixel. If you are happy to wait, sure maybe it'll come to iOS - Google are unlikely to stop their efforts though.
- celeritascelery 8y agoNight vision is best in class for sure. But it is quite a stretch to claim that pixel still has the best camera. The anandtech review of the Pixel 3 consistently said that in daylight the iPhone Xs and Galaxy S9 produced better photos. They just have better hardware. As amazing as software is, you can only do so much to make up for lower class hardware.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Mindless2112 8y agoThis[1] is probably the closest you'll get. Made by the guy who runs the computational photography group at Google. [1] https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/synthcam/id412992079 https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/synthcam/id412992079
- forgot-my-pw 8y agoThey'll release it someday and name it Dark Retina Magic or some sort.
- ZeroCool2u 8y agoThis feature is honestly amazing. I had serious doubts about Google's claims with Night Sight, but The Verge has a great article[1] that uses the pre-release APK and the results are nothing short of spectacular. On a side note, I hadn't bought a new phone in 4 years and decided to spring for the new Pixel 3 XL. Very satisfied so far. [1] https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/25/18021944/google-night-sight-pixel-3-camera-samples https://www.theverge.com/2018/10/25/18021944/google-night-si...
- forgot-my-pw 8y agoThat is very impressive
- Wowfunhappy 8y agoIf the Pixel had a headphone jack, I would probably buy one as well. But that's the thing...
- jonknee 8y agoYou might as well get used to no headphone jack, they're not going to make a come back.
- willio58 8y agoCan you imagine? Industry is headed in one direction and they do a full switch back.. I guess that’s what some people are hoping for.
- power78 8y agoSeriously. This argument is getting old. Bluetooth headphones aren't that difficult to find cheap now anyways. Are people really that attached to their old wired headphones?
- pickdenis 8y ago> Are people really that attached to their old wired headphones? I'm sorry if wanting to spend half as much for better sound offends you, but yes; I much prefer my wired headphones over any bluetooth headphones. Perhaps some $300 bose headphones would win me over, but I doubt they would sound any better than my $150 wired cans. Not to mention that I can plug my headphones into my amp/dac setup when I get home and get sound quality that bluetooth headphones can't even dream of. I don't really like bending over to the will of the greed-infested industry, and I really don't like that the average person does, but I'll stand for my values as long as I can. I won't buy a phone without a 3.5mm headphone jack until I literally have to.
- deckar01 8y agoI read that some people have gotten the APK to work on non-pixel devices with decent results. https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/9u7srh/pixel_3_camera_with_night_sight_works_on_nexus_6p/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Android/comments/9u7srh/pixel_3_cam...
- technofiend 8y agoYup, works fine on my Pixel 2.
- bobbean 8y agoI think you may have misread his post.
- soylentcola 8y agoIt's known to work on Pixel 1st and 2nd gen phones (I installed it on my gen 1 XL no problem) but it's not as straightforward for other devices/brands.
- docbrown 8y agoWithout pushing the cost astronomically high with f/1,4 lenses, it seems as if Night Sight somehow algorithmically allows the standard f/1,8 camera to shoot two-thirds up and allow for these low-light, long-exposure shots. It’s honestly an amazing challenge they accepted and quite possible they accomplished their goal.
- jakecopp 8y agoWhat do you mean by shoot two thirds up? I don't think it's physically possible for an f1.8 lens to pretend to be f1.4, it's the physical dimensions of the iris. The only way is by bringing up the ISO which is what every camera does when adjusting exposure.
- docbrown 8y agoThe lens itself is never going to be able to change, correct. When we get into implifying the problem by “bringing up the ISO” though, this is where you’ll run into problems. Anybody can raise ISO from 800 to 3200 but then you run the risk of inadvertently producing massive amounts of noise on your photo. This is why Google introduced HDR+ to reduce noise. [0] So, what Google did, or at least it seems like, is they were able to take an algorithm that will automatically adjust ISO, reduce noise, and allow for low-light conditions that f1,8 glass would never be able to produce cleanly. [0] http://ai.googleblog.com/2014/10/hdr-low-light-and-high-dynamic-range.html http://ai.googleblog.com/2014/10/hdr-low-light-and-high-dyna...
- Animats 8y agoThat's with a tiny cell phone imager. Combined with a real color night vision imager [1] the results should be as good as daylight. [1] https://www.x20.org/color-night-vision/ https://www.x20.org/color-night-vision/
- mikepurvis 8y agoThe final example picture is from downtown Galt (Cambridge), Waterloo region. I wonder if some of this work was done at the Kitchener engineering office? Here's the same angle on Maps: https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.3598564,-80.3149752,51a,35y,226.21h,65.16t/data=!3m1!1e3 https://www.google.ca/maps/@43.3598564,-80.3149752,51a,35y,2...
- dang 8y agoA big recent thread about this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18301745 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18301745