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Ex-Detainee Describes Torture in China's Xinjiang Re-Education Camp
- Shihan 8y agoWell, I think that the Chinese are right that something must be done about the problem of radical Islam. Somehow like that Allies had to do the De-Nazification after World War 2. But the methods applied seem to be contra-productive.
- MichaelMoser123 8y agoIf you are in - is there a reasonable process to appeal your condition? I doubt so.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoEven Assad pretends to be fighting terrorists when he oppresses his people. The Chinese aren't even doing that. They're targeting anyone who grew up in a religious household and they aren't even claiming to do it to combat religious extremism. Even if they did claim to be fighting extremism it would still not be appropriate to target such a broad group of people. I guess this is such a small minority they feel they can oppress them without consequence. I personally fail to see how these people are in any way a threat to the regime and if anything it seems like the regime's actions will make them a bigger threat in the long term.
- philwelch 8y agoIt's a question of values. The Chinese government places a much higher value on things like social cohesion and modernization than they do on individual liberty.
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoTaking a minority group and giving them a common experience of oppression at the hand of the party will create social unity but among themselves and not with the party. It might work for awhile. Acceptance of authoritarian rule goes way back in Asia. I don't think it will promote stability in the long term.
- philwelch 8y agoWell, maybe. I would certainly like to think so. But I know from the experience of my own ancestors that it’s also possible to alienate people, especially children, from their heritage and forcibly assimilate them into the dominant culture surrounding them.
- ahmedalsudani 8y agoCurious: where were your ancestors from?
- philwelch 8y agoApproximately the region between Quebec and the Midwest, except before they were called by those names :) I have genealogical and genetic evidence of my American Indian heritage, but wasn’t raised with any of the culture, and neither were my father or grandfather.
- ahmedalsudani 8y agoIf after reading this article your main concern is that the methods are counterproductive, you have a problem.
- Shihan 8y agoSo, let them have their qur'ans, let them hate the infidels and strive for an islamic state?
- ahmedalsudani 8y agoIt doesn't seem like you needed a Qur'an to form dangerous ideas. Though I have to say I'm pleasantly surprised you know there's an apostrophe that belongs there. I'd like to bring your attention to the fact that China similarly oppresses the majority-Buddhist population in Tibet. The state's aim is not to achieve whatever lofty goals you might have in mind. They oppress their population to cement their one-party control over the entire population. Those are your fellow human beings. To jump straight into your line of thinking when reading about their oppression ... I don't know what to say ...
- dang 8y agoReligious flamewar is not allowed on HN. Please don't post like this again.
- CapacitorSet 8y agoWe can't know for sure whether they are counter-productive - would there be more islamists without the Chinese policy of repression? Would there be more attacks? We can only conjecture.
- tkcins 8y agoThere probably wouldn't. What perturbs people here about this approach is that it works despite going against the principles of liberal democracy; it's the first time an oppressive regime is not led by dunces, and it's working fine. That, + the fact that most nationals don't really care much about surveillance as long as it helps maintain civility and cohesion.
- throwaway2048 8y agoIts far from the first time, the issue is that when things go wrong those in power can't be replaced.
- JudasGoat 8y agoWould anyone care to comment on the technology that makes the recognition and surveillance possible? If we supply "back doors" to the ChiCom so that they allow our tech to be distributed in China, are we less complicit than the guards?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- Yetanfou 8y agoChina (in the guise of the Chinese Communist Party) versus Islam is a bit like the clash of nations, two irreconcilable doctrines which each want to have a total say over the way people live their lives. When China gets its way - as it mostly does in the country - things start to resemble a cross between 'Gatacca' [1], Brave New World [2] and Down and out in the Magic Kingdom [3] (especially the concept of social credit [4]). When Islam gets its way - as it did in parts of Syria and the Levant and as it partly does in places like Saudi-Arabia and Iran - you get a pre-medieval theocracy where you either submit or get killed. When both of them try to get their way you get conflict, as shown by this report and others. In the end one of them will have to give in in some way, either by allowing the CCP to influence their doctrine - as the Roman Catholic church did - or by going underground - like practitoners of Falun Gong did after their practice fell out of grace with the party. The chance of the CCP giving in to any other doctrine is slim and the likeliness of something like that happening without conflict even slimmer. The future does not look promising in this respect, the past is littered with the remnants of such conflicts - Tiananmen square [5] etc. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gattaca [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brave_New_World [3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_and_Out_in_the_Magic_King... [4] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whuffie [5] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1989_Tiananmen_Square_protests
- afroboy 8y agoAre you ok? what type of comparison is this? how does US allowed Muslims to practice their religion in peace without problem?
- testvox 8y agoAre you ok? Where did the parent say anything about the United States?
- philwelch 8y agoThere are over a billion Muslims in the world. Many of them can and do live peaceably in liberal, secularized societies--but not all, as evidenced by the Boston Marathon bombings, the Fort Hood shooting, the Pulse Nightclub shooting, and the San Bernadino shooting. The United States faces less Islamist terrorism than Europe or the Middle East, not only because the US has a much smaller Muslim population and significant barriers to immigration, but also because American Muslims (with certain noted exceptions) tend to be more likely to accept liberalized values than Muslims elsewhere in the world.
- jorgec 8y agoChina is still communist so, what's the surprise? However, he is a criminal and of course, he is not trustworthy. I worked with this kind of people. The first time, I believe in their crap. However, when you listen to the same story over and over (and textually, sometimes with the same names!), then you roll your eyes.
- Shihan 8y agoWhat happened to freedom of expression in this comment section?
- lostmsu 8y ago> he says inmates had to sing songs praising Chinese leader Xi Jinping before being allowed to eat Hm, that resembles a lot how many people threat their kids even in first world countries. I wonder why that is not considered torture.