3 ms·
I disagree. Flying a plane is pretty much a simple state machine with very well defined states. We have hundred thousands of flight hours available and we can a
by StreamBright 8y ago
I disagree. Flying a plane is pretty much a simple state machine with very well defined states. We have hundred thousands of flight hours available and we can also build a very realistic simulator which is used extensively to train pilots. It is should not be a challenging task to build a reliable auto-pilot and in fact we have already one that covers most of the aspects of flying. On the top of this, most of the flight related incidents are human errors.
- noselasd 8y agoIt doesn't sound that plausible that we can account for all the various things that can happen to a plane in something as complex as the earths atmosphere with a "simple state machine" . Weather can do really wacky things.
- StreamBright 8y agoYou are saying that it is impossible to implement auto-pilot? How does human pilot fly something planes? You think that human mind can deal with infinite states?
- nradov 8y agoYes the human mind can deal with an effectively infinite number of states (and let's not get into a pointless pedantic discussion about the true meaning of "infinite"). Until we figure out how to build a true AGI then no autopilot will be able to do that.
- StreamBright 8y agoNo it can't. Flying an airplane on Earth is a very limited exercise in every possible dimension and it can be easily automated without AGIs.
- nradov 8y agoYou're simply wrong and have no idea how flight control actually works. In particular failure modes aren't simple at all; real machines can break in a huge number of ways and no one could possibly predict them all. Recommend you take some actual graduate level aeronautical engineering courses and then reconsider the issue.
- StreamBright 8y agoI am not arguing about how machines can fail, I am arguing for that computers can do things that humans can. Usually with higher precision and much more reliable.
- nradov 8y agoMachines can do some things with higher precision and reliability than humans. Coping with unexpected aircraft failures aren't currently among those things.
- Scramblejams 8y agonoselasd ain't wrong. Autopilots can and do disconnect when the weather conditions exceed their ability. Happens all the time, though probably not often in large airliners because the big carriers have people dedicated to watching the weather and keeping their pilots out of trouble. Your state machine will have to do that, too.
- nradov 8y agoThis is completely false. Where do you get such silly ideas? Have you ever taken flying lessons?
- StreamBright 8y agoI know this is why do not have auto-pilot.
- Scramblejams 8y agoYou have been misled concerning the accuracy of simulators. "All models are wrong, some are useful" is a helpful quote to remember here. Certified sims are typically very accurate when it comes to avionics and systems. They are often much less representative where vehicle dynamics are concerned. Even the most heavily analyzed aircraft can produce surprises once they actually take to the air. Look up "Super Hornet uncommanded wing drop". Or look at dynamic scaling tests (https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/483000main_ModelingFlight.pdf https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/483000main_ModelingFlight.pdf) which uncovered two spin modes in the F-15 that were previously entirely uncharacterized. (Not sure if the linked doc covers that instance specifically -- I learned this from speaking with the study PI. And no, most aircraft programs don't get to do dynamic scaling tests.) All this is to say that a variety of potential non-linear behavior is lurking inside any given airframe, and all the wind tunnels and CFD in the world will merely allow you to model most of the useful operating conditions, but certainly not all of them. Simulators, just like autopilots, are useful for finite input ranges. If you leave those input ranges, your simulator will precisely and repeatably model a fantasy, and your autopilot will disconnect. Source: Short career as an aerospace engineer.
- StreamBright 8y agoAnd how do you train pilots for these unexpected non-linear events? What stops you to train auto-pilot the same way?
- Scramblejams 8y agoThe point of my post was to say that these unexpected events will not come up in your simulated environment, so you simply will not have the data needed to train the autopilot. The human, by and large, figures it out. We generally accept that risk. But how will the autopilot react to the unexpected event for which you haven't trained it? Who knows?