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> How does YouTube enables me to to make sure that kids are protected? It doesn't. I don't know why this expectation exists; youtube has not shown itself to be

> How does YouTube enables me to to make sure that kids are protected? It doesn't. I don't know why this expectation exists; youtube has not shown itself to be trustworthy in this sort of thing. Clearly an alternative needs to be used, like downloading youtube videos beforehand or using something else entirely.

pluma 8y ago
This is basically the all-American argument of "sure, the advertising is a complete lie but it's the consumer's fault for being gullible". YouTube Kids presents itself as specifically for kids. You don't expect weird fetish porn on daytime kids TV and it's completely reasonable to expect a similar level of moderation for an app that positions itself as an equivalent of that. Blaming the parents really understates how much YouTube has fucked this one up. YT relies on a wonky algorithm and crowdsourcing to moderate its content at scale but their dirty little (open) secret is that this is error prone and exploitable. In a typical Google way they thought they could eliminate paid humans from the equation and still deliver quality -- they can't, and it's entirely their fault. If a company misrepresents a product in a way that results it to cause harm when used exactly as advertised, it's the company's fault.
- Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
  Your problem is then with YouTube kids, not YouTube. Not everyone wants their content censored by dogmatists.
  - pluma 8y ago
    What are you even talking about? YouTube Kids is from YouTube and is advertised as a kids-friendly filtered version of YouTube. YouTube Kids however failed to filter tons of disturbing and inappropriate content. The entire raison d'etre of YouTube Kids is to provide a filtered YouTube experience -- it failed hard. EDIT: I can't even begin to comprehend how you think any of this is about "dogmatists censoring YouTube". YT Kids only providing kids-friendly content is no different from YT Music only providing music. It's not censorship, it's filtering. You can still go to YouTube proper and watch everything.
    - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
      Your problem is still with YouTube kids and not with YouTube. Your entire argument is the filtration they tried failed. We agree. Great. My point is that the conclusion you draw is that everything needs more censorship. We disagree. I think parents need to take responsibility and not blame a company for providing a product they don't like. Its the equivalent of censoring the radio because think of the children. It was a dumb idea then, it's a dumb idea now, because everyone knows that's not where it ends.
      - detaro 8y ago
        I don't see where you get the idea that that's the conclusion they draw. It seems like you arguing against something they never said.
        Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        How do you understand the arguments.
        detaro 8y ago
        That they're unhappy with how they handled YouTube Kids, nothing about censoring the main YT product.
        Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        And I said his problem is with YouTube kids not YouTube. Not sure what part of that you disagree with.
        detaro 8y ago
        > My point is that the conclusion you draw is that everything needs more censorship. That claim about their conclusion I do not understand, since I don't see where they are saying anything like that.
- intertextuality 8y ago
  Daytime TV is at least somewhat regulated by the FCC. Youtube is not, to my knowledge. > This is basically the all-American argument of "sure, the advertising is a complete lie but it's the consumer's fault for being gullible". No, it's your fault for believing advertising in the first place. I only judge youtube through my personal knowledge and experience of using it for the last 6+ years. Just because someone, or a PR team, says "it's for kids!" does NOT mean it's quality programming or acceptable content. That is your responsibility to determine, as a parent or guardian. Do not blame youtube when you know that it is a website where anyone can upload anything. And it's run by a company that thinks ML algorithms can filter videos adequately. No, this is lazy parenting, just blindly trusting a corporation to actually do things right, when they're not even regulated adequately. Nothing is stopping you from downloading videos beforehand, or finding better content platforms or content producers, like PBS. This is you throwing up your hands in the air and wanting to shift blame to a corporation when you didn't take the time or effort to screen things before putting your kids in front of a screen + opaque algorithm.

pluma 8y ago

This is basically the all-American argument of "sure, the advertising is a complete lie but it's the consumer's fault for being gullible". YouTube Kids presents itself as specifically for kids. You don't expect weird fetish porn on daytime kids TV and it's completely reasonable to expect a similar level of moderation for an app that positions itself as an equivalent of that. Blaming the parents really understates how much YouTube has fucked this one up. YT relies on a wonky algorithm and crowdsourcing to moderate its content at scale but their dirty little (open) secret is that this is error prone and exploitable. In a typical Google way they thought they could eliminate paid humans from the equation and still deliver quality -- they can't, and it's entirely their fault. If a company misrepresents a product in a way that results it to cause harm when used exactly as advertised, it's the company's fault.

Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
Your problem is then with YouTube kids, not YouTube. Not everyone wants their content censored by dogmatists.
- pluma 8y ago
  What are you even talking about? YouTube Kids is from YouTube and is advertised as a kids-friendly filtered version of YouTube. YouTube Kids however failed to filter tons of disturbing and inappropriate content. The entire raison d'etre of YouTube Kids is to provide a filtered YouTube experience -- it failed hard. EDIT: I can't even begin to comprehend how you think any of this is about "dogmatists censoring YouTube". YT Kids only providing kids-friendly content is no different from YT Music only providing music. It's not censorship, it's filtering. You can still go to YouTube proper and watch everything.
  - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
    Your problem is still with YouTube kids and not with YouTube. Your entire argument is the filtration they tried failed. We agree. Great. My point is that the conclusion you draw is that everything needs more censorship. We disagree. I think parents need to take responsibility and not blame a company for providing a product they don't like. Its the equivalent of censoring the radio because think of the children. It was a dumb idea then, it's a dumb idea now, because everyone knows that's not where it ends.
    - detaro 8y ago
      I don't see where you get the idea that that's the conclusion they draw. It seems like you arguing against something they never said.
      - Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        How do you understand the arguments.
        detaro 8y ago
        That they're unhappy with how they handled YouTube Kids, nothing about censoring the main YT product.
        Lkjhmnbv 8y ago
        And I said his problem is with YouTube kids not YouTube. Not sure what part of that you disagree with.
        detaro 8y ago
        > My point is that the conclusion you draw is that everything needs more censorship. That claim about their conclusion I do not understand, since I don't see where they are saying anything like that.
intertextuality 8y ago
Daytime TV is at least somewhat regulated by the FCC. Youtube is not, to my knowledge. > This is basically the all-American argument of "sure, the advertising is a complete lie but it's the consumer's fault for being gullible". No, it's your fault for believing advertising in the first place. I only judge youtube through my personal knowledge and experience of using it for the last 6+ years. Just because someone, or a PR team, says "it's for kids!" does NOT mean it's quality programming or acceptable content. That is your responsibility to determine, as a parent or guardian. Do not blame youtube when you know that it is a website where anyone can upload anything. And it's run by a company that thinks ML algorithms can filter videos adequately. No, this is lazy parenting, just blindly trusting a corporation to actually do things right, when they're not even regulated adequately. Nothing is stopping you from downloading videos beforehand, or finding better content platforms or content producers, like PBS. This is you throwing up your hands in the air and wanting to shift blame to a corporation when you didn't take the time or effort to screen things before putting your kids in front of a screen + opaque algorithm.