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I don't agree with the OPs off-hand dismissal of capitalism either but... I think this trope is misused. Peasants are better off and the world is wealthier bec

by netcan 8y ago

I don't agree with the OPs off-hand dismissal of capitalism either but... I think this trope is misused. Peasants are better off and the world is wealthier because of science, not a political ideology. The industrial revolution, scientific medicine, the green revolution... Saudi Arabia's "peasants" (or descendants of herdsmen, properly) are wealthier because of oil mining and modern energy industry, not monarchy or capitalism or whoever else wants to take credit. I'm not saying politics doesn't effect anything, it obviously does but capitalism can't just claim credit for everything invented in the last 200. Btw, this is exactly what Lenin did and what Orwell parodied in 1984. I'm not saying you can't argue that capitalism benefited the poor, but you can't just claim everything good that happened after 1800 for capitalism.

whatshisface 8y ago
You can argue that research and development of new products is motivated by the constant churn of competition and obsolescence that isn't present in a monarchy which would be primarily concerned with stability. "My Lord, a pesant is trying to usurp my authority." "Very well, I will have him hung."
- netcan 8y ago
  The problem with political ideas (and ideals) is that you can always argue both ways. Historically, both modern capitalism and the industrial revolution were born and raised in monarchies. The forefathers of modern global corporations were royal charter companies.
  - whatshisface 8y ago
    >Historically, both modern capitalism and the industrial revolution were born and raised in monarchies. I think that's more of an example of how the actual distribution of power in society is the only thing that matters, the label of the system being purely ceremonial. If everyone in a society is allowed to participate in a free market, you will see the fruits of capitalism, even if the market is black and the politburo insist that the state is fully communist. In the context of my earlier point, sure, if a monarch allows other people in their society to hold enough power to participate in capitalism, then, well, the system will start looking a lot like capitalism.
  - marcosdumay 8y ago
    Funny. I got the idea they were born on the most liberal country in Europe exactly because the peasants killed some kings there, until the kings agreed on a bill of rights.
naasking 8y ago
You can't so trivially separate them. Capitalism solves a resource allocation problem, and it's the most efficient one for private goods, which most goods at the time were. Any other approach would have seen more corruption and more death from improperly allocated resources. So yes, capitalism has helped the poor considerably, not just science. New tech without a proper distribution system is useless.

by netcan 8y ago

whatshisface 8y ago

You can argue that research and development of new products is motivated by the constant churn of competition and obsolescence that isn't present in a monarchy which would be primarily concerned with stability. "My Lord, a pesant is trying to usurp my authority." "Very well, I will have him hung."

netcan 8y ago
The problem with political ideas (and ideals) is that you can always argue both ways. Historically, both modern capitalism and the industrial revolution were born and raised in monarchies. The forefathers of modern global corporations were royal charter companies.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  >Historically, both modern capitalism and the industrial revolution were born and raised in monarchies. I think that's more of an example of how the actual distribution of power in society is the only thing that matters, the label of the system being purely ceremonial. If everyone in a society is allowed to participate in a free market, you will see the fruits of capitalism, even if the market is black and the politburo insist that the state is fully communist. In the context of my earlier point, sure, if a monarch allows other people in their society to hold enough power to participate in capitalism, then, well, the system will start looking a lot like capitalism.
- marcosdumay 8y ago
  Funny. I got the idea they were born on the most liberal country in Europe exactly because the peasants killed some kings there, until the kings agreed on a bill of rights.

naasking 8y ago

You can't so trivially separate them. Capitalism solves a resource allocation problem, and it's the most efficient one for private goods, which most goods at the time were. Any other approach would have seen more corruption and more death from improperly allocated resources. So yes, capitalism has helped the poor considerably, not just science. New tech without a proper distribution system is useless.